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A demonstrator protests the 2015 election result (David Cliff/SOPA Images/LightRocket via Getty Images)
“The world is controlled by a secretive elite.” This claim will strike some as conspiratorial nonsense and others as an obvious statement of fact. Either way, it is now beyond doubt that a large minority of the adult population believes it to be true. The latest data from UnHerd Britain reveals that 38% of the British population agrees, while 33% disagree and 30% are not sure.
It is a useful phrase to measure core beliefs because it takes us beyond the idea of conspiracy theories, with all their distracting details and absurdity, to the underlying intuition that fuels them. In this world view, the “elites” are faraway and malevolent, exercising control in self-serving ways; meanwhile, democratic politics and the mainstream media are regarded as little more than distractions, likely in the service of powerful secret masters.
Whatever people believe about specific conspiracies — and this week offered no shortage of them, from UFOs over North America to hushed-up explosions in Ohio — our findings reveal how widespread the underlying mindset is that propels them. Thanks to our partner Focaldata and a statistical process called MRP, we can now see which constituencies are the most and least conspiratorial in the country. The results shed new light on how these voters should be viewed by the main political parties.
First, it is clear that conspiratorial thinking is not a “Right-wing” phenomenon. Voters who believe in a controlling secretive elite are much more likely to vote Labour than Conservative, and much more likely to live in a safe Labour constituency. By this measure, the 10 most conspiratorial constituencies in the country are all safe Labour seats, whereas the 10 least conspiratorial constituencies are all Tory (except Chesham and Amersham, which switched to Lib Dem in the 2021 by-election).
As the above table shows, the “most conspiratorial” list is made up of poor and highly diverse inner-city constituencies, which may explain why people come to feel so alienated and suspicious. In these places, a conspiratorial world view is the norm — in Birmingham Ladywood, for example, only 14% of people disagree with the statement. Meanwhile, in the rolling Chiltern hills of Chesham and Amersham and the affluent enclaves of Henley and Mole Valley, where the elites likely seem less distant and more on your side, few are concerned. It is a useful reminder to politicians of all parties that, while they may find conspiratorial voters troublesome, many come from the most disadvantaged communities.
Second, the results should encourage new anti-establishment parties on both the Left and Right. Thanks to our unusually large sample size of more than 10,000 respondents, we were able to measure the attitudes of voters who chose even the smallest parties in 2019 with a high degree of confidence. More than any of the mainstream parties, including Labour, the voters most prone to a conspiratorial outlook come from the anti-establishment parties: 54% of Brexit Party voters agree with the statement, alongside 45% of Plaid Cymru voters and 43% of SNP voters. So, while the Brexit binary pushed a larger proportion of voters towards the two main parties in 2019, it seems there are millions of voters who remain potentially open to new populist appeals.
There is a specific lesson here for the Labour Party. When I first tested this phrase at YouGov during the Labour leadership election of 2015, the belief that “the world is controlled by a secretive elite” was revealed to be a defining characteristic of supporters of Jeremy Corbyn: 28% of Corbyn’s backers strongly agreed with it, compared to 16% of Yvette Cooper’s and just 7% of Liz Kendall’s. Today, 42% of Labour voters agree with it, of whom 18% strongly agree. Antisemitism may have finally been dealt with in the Labour Party, but the mindset that drove it has not disappeared.
This suggests that, rather than Brexit or the election of Trump, the shock outcome of the 2015 Labour leadership election was the first real marker of the new era of low-trust and high-volatility politics; and the best way to understand it is by looking at the general election that took place immediately before. Today, it seems almost comic to recall, in the context of the eye-watering sums borrowed by successive Conservative governments, that the 2015 election was dominated by technical discussions of exactly what percentage point of austerity was appropriate to cut the deficit. Tory strategist Lynton Crosby calculated — correctly, as it turned out — that if nothing more interesting were discussed, the Tories would win by default. It was a cynical way to treat an electorate, for which he was rewarded with a knighthood. Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls, meanwhile, frightened of seeming weak on economics, committed a Labour government to “austerity-lite”.
Come the election, the differences between the main parties were marginal; voters sensed a stitch-up in which the Tories and Labour had colluded to starve them of a more meaningful choice. It is hard to say they were wrong: 2015 saw the UK’s highest ever immigration numbers, for example, but this topic was hardly mentioned in the campaign. A rejection of this non-choice sowed the seeds not only for Corbyn’s election but for the Brexit result the following year.
The story of what happened in the years since 2016 is well-known. First came the attempts to frustrate the Brexit vote, which confirmed voters’ worst suspicions about cross-party collusion and elite disregard for the democratic process. And then came the rolling Covid lockdowns, which in turn radicalised a whole new constituency. There has perhaps never been a policy so life-altering and so little-debated, with a cross-party consensus parroted throughout much of the media. In those dystopian months and years, millions of people lost trust in authorities and turned to alternative explanations. These were not Right-wing activists or spotty teenagers in basements: they were mothers, grandparents and people who had never before been political. It’s hardly surprising that Google recorded the all-time high of searches for “conspiracy theory” in March 2020.
The pattern, from the 2015 election through to the pandemic, is that whenever views are suppressed, distrust and alienation follow. It is when the “Overton Window” is too narrow, not too wide, that politics feels fake and conspiracies abound. The distrust that now cuts across society is not the fault of a few small-time cranks and bad-faith opportunists — it is overwhelmingly the creation of elites who consistently tried to deny the electorate real choices.
Fast forward to the past few months, with the ejection of Liz Truss as prime minister and the rehabilitation of pre-2015 figures such as Jeremy Hunt, and many will be hoping that the era of political turbulence is finally coming to an end. It certainly feels it; for the first time since 2015, there are two technocrats at the helm of Britain’s major political parties. Centrists in both parties are hoping that as Corbynism and Brexit recede into history, the “grown-ups” will be back in charge.
But today’s UnHerd Britain data suggests that, beneath the surface, voter distrust and suspicion are more present than ever; and that the currents that propelled both Jeremy Corbyn and Brexit still run right through Labour’s heartlands. If the 2024 election is anything like 2015 — with the mainstream parties becoming harder and harder to tell apart — it could be the beginning of a whole new wave of democratic revolts.
freddiesayers
It is a useful phrase to measure core beliefs because it takes us beyond the idea of conspiracy theories, with all their distracting details and absurdity, to the underlying intuition that fuels them. In this world view, the “elites” are faraway and malevolent, exercising control in self-serving ways; meanwhile, democratic politics and the mainstream media are regarded as little more than distractions, likely in the service of powerful secret masters.
Whatever people believe about specific conspiracies — and this week offered no shortage of them, from UFOs over North America to hushed-up explosions in Ohio — our findings reveal how widespread the underlying mindset is that propels them. Thanks to our partner Focaldata and a statistical process called MRP, we can now see which constituencies are the most and least conspiratorial in the country. The results shed new light on how these voters should be viewed by the main political parties.
First, it is clear that conspiratorial thinking is not a “Right-wing” phenomenon. Voters who believe in a controlling secretive elite are much more likely to vote Labour than Conservative, and much more likely to live in a safe Labour constituency. By this measure, the 10 most conspiratorial constituencies in the country are all safe Labour seats, whereas the 10 least conspiratorial constituencies are all Tory (except Chesham and Amersham, which switched to Lib Dem in the 2021 by-election).
As the above table shows, the “most conspiratorial” list is made up of poor and highly diverse inner-city constituencies, which may explain why people come to feel so alienated and suspicious. In these places, a conspiratorial world view is the norm — in Birmingham Ladywood, for example, only 14% of people disagree with the statement. Meanwhile, in the rolling Chiltern hills of Chesham and Amersham and the affluent enclaves of Henley and Mole Valley, where the elites likely seem less distant and more on your side, few are concerned. It is a useful reminder to politicians of all parties that, while they may find conspiratorial voters troublesome, many come from the most disadvantaged communities.
Second, the results should encourage new anti-establishment parties on both the Left and Right. Thanks to our unusually large sample size of more than 10,000 respondents, we were able to measure the attitudes of voters who chose even the smallest parties in 2019 with a high degree of confidence. More than any of the mainstream parties, including Labour, the voters most prone to a conspiratorial outlook come from the anti-establishment parties: 54% of Brexit Party voters agree with the statement, alongside 45% of Plaid Cymru voters and 43% of SNP voters. So, while the Brexit binary pushed a larger proportion of voters towards the two main parties in 2019, it seems there are millions of voters who remain potentially open to new populist appeals.
There is a specific lesson here for the Labour Party. When I first tested this phrase at YouGov during the Labour leadership election of 2015, the belief that “the world is controlled by a secretive elite” was revealed to be a defining characteristic of supporters of Jeremy Corbyn: 28% of Corbyn’s backers strongly agreed with it, compared to 16% of Yvette Cooper’s and just 7% of Liz Kendall’s. Today, 42% of Labour voters agree with it, of whom 18% strongly agree. Antisemitism may have finally been dealt with in the Labour Party, but the mindset that drove it has not disappeared.
This suggests that, rather than Brexit or the election of Trump, the shock outcome of the 2015 Labour leadership election was the first real marker of the new era of low-trust and high-volatility politics; and the best way to understand it is by looking at the general election that took place immediately before. Today, it seems almost comic to recall, in the context of the eye-watering sums borrowed by successive Conservative governments, that the 2015 election was dominated by technical discussions of exactly what percentage point of austerity was appropriate to cut the deficit. Tory strategist Lynton Crosby calculated — correctly, as it turned out — that if nothing more interesting were discussed, the Tories would win by default. It was a cynical way to treat an electorate, for which he was rewarded with a knighthood. Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls, meanwhile, frightened of seeming weak on economics, committed a Labour government to “austerity-lite”.
Come the election, the differences between the main parties were marginal; voters sensed a stitch-up in which the Tories and Labour had colluded to starve them of a more meaningful choice. It is hard to say they were wrong: 2015 saw the UK’s highest ever immigration numbers, for example, but this topic was hardly mentioned in the campaign. A rejection of this non-choice sowed the seeds not only for Corbyn’s election but for the Brexit result the following year.
The story of what happened in the years since 2016 is well-known. First came the attempts to frustrate the Brexit vote, which confirmed voters’ worst suspicions about cross-party collusion and elite disregard for the democratic process. And then came the rolling Covid lockdowns, which in turn radicalised a whole new constituency. There has perhaps never been a policy so life-altering and so little-debated, with a cross-party consensus parroted throughout much of the media. In those dystopian months and years, millions of people lost trust in authorities and turned to alternative explanations. These were not Right-wing activists or spotty teenagers in basements: they were mothers, grandparents and people who had never before been political. It’s hardly surprising that Google recorded the all-time high of searches for “conspiracy theory” in March 2020.
The pattern, from the 2015 election through to the pandemic, is that whenever views are suppressed, distrust and alienation follow. It is when the “Overton Window” is too narrow, not too wide, that politics feels fake and conspiracies abound. The distrust that now cuts across society is not the fault of a few small-time cranks and bad-faith opportunists — it is overwhelmingly the creation of elites who consistently tried to deny the electorate real choices.
Fast forward to the past few months, with the ejection of Liz Truss as prime minister and the rehabilitation of pre-2015 figures such as Jeremy Hunt, and many will be hoping that the era of political turbulence is finally coming to an end. It certainly feels it; for the first time since 2015, there are two technocrats at the helm of Britain’s major political parties. Centrists in both parties are hoping that as Corbynism and Brexit recede into history, the “grown-ups” will be back in charge.
But today’s UnHerd Britain data suggests that, beneath the surface, voter distrust and suspicion are more present than ever; and that the currents that propelled both Jeremy Corbyn and Brexit still run right through Labour’s heartlands. If the 2024 election is anything like 2015 — with the mainstream parties becoming harder and harder to tell apart — it could be the beginning of a whole new wave of democratic revolts.
Freddie Sayers is the Editor-in-Chief & CEO of UnHerd. He was previously Editor-in-Chief of YouGov, and founder of PoliticsHome.
freddiesayers
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SubscribeIt is hard to disagree with much of this. I’ve been voting for 47 years and I have never known the current level of distrust in our entire political and governmental system. I agree that much of this has resulted from the continuing attempts to overturn the referendum result, and from the ridiculous authoritarian response to the pandemic.
It was always the British way to poke fun at leaders while also having quite considerable respect for them and reasonably high levels of trust and obedience.
I think those days are gone – at least for a while – as those who lead us, along with those who aspire to lead us, appear to have become universally utterly despised by huge swathes of the population.
It is quite hard to see how this can be anything other than very unhealthy state of affairs, or to see how our completely shattered trust in our political class might ever be repaired. For centuries they were protected from their own shortcomings by an aura and a mystique which was broadly able to survive newspapers, radio, and television. But it was never going to survive the internet. And it has not.
The internet gave the political class a voice – with which, to our horror, it demonstrated its bigotry, its ignorance, and its contempt for the rest of us. And it gave the people a voice to discuss their monstrous shortcomings. The result is now evident to us all.
I also wonder if Brexit as far as the UK is concerned, has also demonstrated just how inept many of our leading politicians and civil servants are. They can no longer blame their failings on the EU so it is all on them now. In time, this may result in a better quality of government, but like most things as a result of Brexit, it’ll likely take till the end of the decade before we see the tangible benefits.
Very much so, as the article on the car industry makes clear.
I read that after seeing your comment, so infuriating.
I read that after seeing your comment, so infuriating.
Absolutely. Regardless of whether we ever see any benefits of Brexit or not, its proponents no longer have the EU to scapegoat for their own ineptitude. I still believe FPTP has delivered us two near identical parties, fighting over the centre ground. PR might reward the likes of Farage and Corbyn but at least it would be more representative. But then I suppose that’s the last thing the “secretive elites” would want.
Two near identical parties that don’t know what they’re doing. There are going to be a lot of unhappy people on Twitter in 2025-26 when Labour get in and they’re likely to be just as inept. PR is one potential way out of this rut, but we need to transform this country top to bottom in many cases.
The first, and most important, step must be to wrest control of education away from the blob. The extent to which young people’s attitudes are now based on entirely unquestioned authoritarian assumptions and the almost total absence of diversity of opinion in education is the greatest obstacle to a revival of democratic values.
The first, and most important, step must be to wrest control of education away from the blob. The extent to which young people’s attitudes are now based on entirely unquestioned authoritarian assumptions and the almost total absence of diversity of opinion in education is the greatest obstacle to a revival of democratic values.
I think our New Zealand experience suggests it probably doesn’t make much difference on a macro level.
Two near identical parties that don’t know what they’re doing. There are going to be a lot of unhappy people on Twitter in 2025-26 when Labour get in and they’re likely to be just as inept. PR is one potential way out of this rut, but we need to transform this country top to bottom in many cases.
I think our New Zealand experience suggests it probably doesn’t make much difference on a macro level.
All agreed, John.
As the real responsibility for running our country leaves the EU and descends on the shoulders of our unexpectedly feeble politicos, some mayhem was always likely to occur. They are going to have to get a grip.
Correct. The only – but fundamental – achievement of Brexit was to get us out of the Empire; to re assert the basic principle of sovereignty and rule by elected representatives. Our problem is that our 40 year life as an EU Province saw power transferred away from national Parliament to a vast supposedly neutral (ha!) non elected technocracy (or NMIs). That was the Brussels Plan and it worked. Our tiny Executive has lost grip on most of the key levers of power and – worse – a shabby political Establishment used to being spoon fed laws by their superiors in Brussels have lost the ability to initiate and govern. Our public sector is in freefall. Let’s hope the habit of governance returns in time. We sorely need Action This Day conviction politicians to lead us out of the maze.
Although many of our public servants are indeed terrifyingly inadequate, I think their failures are more a consequence of the over-centralisation that’s been accelerating for forty years.
Brexit really should be seen as the beginning of a reversal of that process. Of course the Westminster class will resist – even to the point of employing lawfare on a large scale against dissidents, as we’re seeing now – but the opening up of debate brought by the Internet makes a return to pluralism inevitable in the long term.
The establishment has morphed seamlessly from blaming the EU to blaming the voters themselves. The establishment is incapable of accepting that – to paraphrase Ronald Reagan – it is not the solution to the problem, it IS the problem.
Very much so, as the article on the car industry makes clear.
Absolutely. Regardless of whether we ever see any benefits of Brexit or not, its proponents no longer have the EU to scapegoat for their own ineptitude. I still believe FPTP has delivered us two near identical parties, fighting over the centre ground. PR might reward the likes of Farage and Corbyn but at least it would be more representative. But then I suppose that’s the last thing the “secretive elites” would want.
All agreed, John.
As the real responsibility for running our country leaves the EU and descends on the shoulders of our unexpectedly feeble politicos, some mayhem was always likely to occur. They are going to have to get a grip.
Correct. The only – but fundamental – achievement of Brexit was to get us out of the Empire; to re assert the basic principle of sovereignty and rule by elected representatives. Our problem is that our 40 year life as an EU Province saw power transferred away from national Parliament to a vast supposedly neutral (ha!) non elected technocracy (or NMIs). That was the Brussels Plan and it worked. Our tiny Executive has lost grip on most of the key levers of power and – worse – a shabby political Establishment used to being spoon fed laws by their superiors in Brussels have lost the ability to initiate and govern. Our public sector is in freefall. Let’s hope the habit of governance returns in time. We sorely need Action This Day conviction politicians to lead us out of the maze.
Although many of our public servants are indeed terrifyingly inadequate, I think their failures are more a consequence of the over-centralisation that’s been accelerating for forty years.
Brexit really should be seen as the beginning of a reversal of that process. Of course the Westminster class will resist – even to the point of employing lawfare on a large scale against dissidents, as we’re seeing now – but the opening up of debate brought by the Internet makes a return to pluralism inevitable in the long term.
The establishment has morphed seamlessly from blaming the EU to blaming the voters themselves. The establishment is incapable of accepting that – to paraphrase Ronald Reagan – it is not the solution to the problem, it IS the problem.
Well said indeed Sir!
Additionally:
The Iraq war saw Blair lead us into a conflict that resulted in .5 ~ 1M deaths, the rise of ISIS, the migrant crisis and rise in terrorism in Europe. No one is held to account.
The financial crisis saw the banking sector commit vast fraud that has for more than a decade strangled much of the western world with debt. No one is held to account.
A complex has formed around the political institutions, the corporate sectors, (particularly tech), the media and a variety of NGOs. This is a network of aligned interests and those interests aren’t yours.
Of course – how on earth could it ever be any different?
I agree with you. People vote for a party, if they vote at all, and this party is a group of professional politicians. If they are good at anything it is talking : talking without saying anything, without appearing to agree or disagree with the questioner, without any sense of responsibility for what they say.
Amazingly, the people who are sophisticated enough to comment on UnHerd, the top 1% of the country, those with a combined experience of thousands of years – think that these politicians will actually do something good.
The same is true in business. People who ‘talk the talk’ get key jobs and they just don’t have a clue what to do.
I would imagine the top 1% of the country have more exciting things to do than post on here all day.
But you are not taking age into account. Everyone on UnHerd is old, trying to keep the old ways.
Not trying to keep to ‘the old ways’, merely trying to preserve the freedoms we once enjoyed.
Perhaps the ‘old ways’ were better. Thirty years ago most young people in this country could at least aspire to owning a home, had job security and a reasonable standard of healthcare, could afford to have children, could assume their kids were getting a broad education instead of the intensive indoctrination provided now and were not liable to be banged up for saying something innocuous.
Don’t forget: Venezuela was once a free country with a fast-growing economy. It CAN happen here.
In my family group all these life aspirations are still true and being achieved – marriage, kids, home ownership. Maybe we are a lucky family…..or maybe we ARE the elite!!
In my family group all these life aspirations are still true and being achieved – marriage, kids, home ownership. Maybe we are a lucky family…..or maybe we ARE the elite!!
Not trying to keep to ‘the old ways’, merely trying to preserve the freedoms we once enjoyed.
Perhaps the ‘old ways’ were better. Thirty years ago most young people in this country could at least aspire to owning a home, had job security and a reasonable standard of healthcare, could afford to have children, could assume their kids were getting a broad education instead of the intensive indoctrination provided now and were not liable to be banged up for saying something innocuous.
Don’t forget: Venezuela was once a free country with a fast-growing economy. It CAN happen here.
Ah but us decrepit old fossils it is a pleasant diversion from ‘waiting for death’.
So please indulge us!
But you are not taking age into account. Everyone on UnHerd is old, trying to keep the old ways.
Ah but us decrepit old fossils it is a pleasant diversion from ‘waiting for death’.
So please indulge us!
I would imagine the top 1% of the country have more exciting things to do than post on here all day.
I agree with you. People vote for a party, if they vote at all, and this party is a group of professional politicians. If they are good at anything it is talking : talking without saying anything, without appearing to agree or disagree with the questioner, without any sense of responsibility for what they say.
Amazingly, the people who are sophisticated enough to comment on UnHerd, the top 1% of the country, those with a combined experience of thousands of years – think that these politicians will actually do something good.
The same is true in business. People who ‘talk the talk’ get key jobs and they just don’t have a clue what to do.
Yes, but much of that might have happened anyway. ‘Tectonic’ forces are at work among human populations everywhere, and some of what you mention is more the result of them.
I am not by any means a fan of Blair (I’m extremely conservative; small c, unlike he current Conservatives), but I think it’s unfair to load the blame on him.
I think most of what we observe is emergent, not a planned system or construct. To me, this is a more realistic explanation than the typically offered dichotomy of conspiracy or coincidence. It does not preclude either, though.
I only use Blair as an example (okay, I also don’t particularly like him) of a political elite who may act with impunity. The US neocons could certainly be added to the list.
Chaos trumps conspiracy every time.
Chaos trumps conspiracy every time.
If he had been arrested I’m sure he would have blabbed his head off so we could have nabbed those on this side of the pond
Blair was just another in a series of lying low life who could, did and does lie with consummate ease who was never called to account for any of his crimes against the British people. However he was not the only one Heath was another one.
Didn’t you see his pitch at Davos about digital id/vaccine passport. He is very much the problem
I think most of what we observe is emergent, not a planned system or construct. To me, this is a more realistic explanation than the typically offered dichotomy of conspiracy or coincidence. It does not preclude either, though.
I only use Blair as an example (okay, I also don’t particularly like him) of a political elite who may act with impunity. The US neocons could certainly be added to the list.
If he had been arrested I’m sure he would have blabbed his head off so we could have nabbed those on this side of the pond
Blair was just another in a series of lying low life who could, did and does lie with consummate ease who was never called to account for any of his crimes against the British people. However he was not the only one Heath was another one.
Didn’t you see his pitch at Davos about digital id/vaccine passport. He is very much the problem
As the late, great George Carlin memorably put it: “It’s a big, f*****g private club…and you ain’t in it”.
I very much like your use of the excellent term “a network of aligned interests”, as an efficient way to show the distinction from a conspiracy viewpoint.
People are fillu capable of acting in unison without any conscious understanding of the forces and incentives influencing them.
As we saw during Covid and contine to see with the climate hysteria
As we saw during Covid and contine to see with the climate hysteria
Of course – how on earth could it ever be any different?
Yes, but much of that might have happened anyway. ‘Tectonic’ forces are at work among human populations everywhere, and some of what you mention is more the result of them.
I am not by any means a fan of Blair (I’m extremely conservative; small c, unlike he current Conservatives), but I think it’s unfair to load the blame on him.
As the late, great George Carlin memorably put it: “It’s a big, f*****g private club…and you ain’t in it”.
I very much like your use of the excellent term “a network of aligned interests”, as an efficient way to show the distinction from a conspiracy viewpoint.
People are fillu capable of acting in unison without any conscious understanding of the forces and incentives influencing them.
“continuing attempts to overturn the referendum result”
Utter nonsense.
Fact: Britain has left the EU. Fact: No party is seeking to reverse this. Probable fact: The EU doesn’t want Britain back in.
What planet are you on mate?
Well, “mate”, The entire establishment would rather the UK “re-aligned” with the EU. You don’t have to reverse a decision, you merely have to re-align it. I don’t blame them – self-interest is a powerful driver.
I’m on Planet Reality, Frank. The planet in which our political class first tried to cancel the referendum, failed and has ever since done nothing but attempt to discredit it, sabotage it, and eventually to try to reverse it.
Anyone who can’t see that must be living on the planet Zog.
Perhaps not continuing as of this week, but it went on for a long time after the result was announced. I am sure that there are more than a few who would reverse it now, were such a thing possible.
The rejoin terms and conditions would be thrillingly severe and expensive for us, so I think they would like it very much. We would of course have zero power.
Second best from their point of view might be with the UK as a firmly tethered milchcow, which is clearly what the remainer campaigners want.
Well, “mate”, The entire establishment would rather the UK “re-aligned” with the EU. You don’t have to reverse a decision, you merely have to re-align it. I don’t blame them – self-interest is a powerful driver.
I’m on Planet Reality, Frank. The planet in which our political class first tried to cancel the referendum, failed and has ever since done nothing but attempt to discredit it, sabotage it, and eventually to try to reverse it.
Anyone who can’t see that must be living on the planet Zog.
Perhaps not continuing as of this week, but it went on for a long time after the result was announced. I am sure that there are more than a few who would reverse it now, were such a thing possible.
The rejoin terms and conditions would be thrillingly severe and expensive for us, so I think they would like it very much. We would of course have zero power.
Second best from their point of view might be with the UK as a firmly tethered milchcow, which is clearly what the remainer campaigners want.
First 3 paragraphs of your comment are spot-on.
Your last 2 paragraphs are a sentimental attempt (typical of the populist hard left and hard right alike) to absolve the hoi polloi for their mass credulity, semi-literacy and willingness to latch onto any simplistic them-and-us type “answer”.
MPs are ‘of the people’ too. Blaming people you vote for is a bit, er, thick.
Face it, we’re shaved apes, floating in space.
Don’t expect too much.
“To absolve the hoi polloi for their mass credulity, semi-literacy and willingness to latch onto any simplistic them-and-us type “answer”.”
Look in the mirror, “mate”.
No THE is not necessary, hoi means the!
Not my quote, “mate”! Straight from the horse’s mouth! From he who berates others for semi-literacy.
My sincere apologies!
Accepted!
Accepted!
My sincere apologies!
Good spot, but your target is “mate” McCusker rather than polidori.
Thank you, I shall adjust my aim accordingly.
Thank you, I shall adjust my aim accordingly.
Not my quote, “mate”! Straight from the horse’s mouth! From he who berates others for semi-literacy.
Good spot, but your target is “mate” McCusker rather than polidori.
No THE is not necessary, hoi means the!
You speak for yourself old lad – not for me.
“To absolve the hoi polloi for their mass credulity, semi-literacy and willingness to latch onto any simplistic them-and-us type “answer”.”
Look in the mirror, “mate”.
You speak for yourself old lad – not for me.
Distrust in the current political and governmental system.
When I get depressed about all this (frequently) I cheer myself up by going to Parliamentlive.tv to watch some of the select committees at work.
Two uplifting / interesting examples are the griling of Simon Thompson from Royal Mail recently :
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/6d6c6d30-93b4-4555-a8fc-d7c9d6644c2a
and Dominic Cummings making a passionate case for a UK DARPA in front of the Science and Technology Committee in 2021 and the manner in which the members questioned him :
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/0e6bc08b-5aee-47c7-af4d-57bea66d7d7f
Great comment. There is no controlling secretive elite however. What exists are numerous (perhaps thousands) powerful people who have significant influence in their field of of affairs, some of which is limited other perhaps more expansive. This shouldn’t be considered as conspiratorial however, it’s merely the machinations of humanity and our society.
“I agree that much of this has resulted from the continuing attempts to overturn the referendum result, and from the ridiculous authoritarian response to the pandemic.”
Absolutely, but I would also add two more factors:-
i. The elite’s enthusiastic adoption of woke.
ii. The elite’s institutionally racist anti-white pandering to Pakistani paedophile rape gangs.
Precisely, well said!
Precisely, well said!
Interesting to compare the impact of the Internet with that of the printing press and the efforts of the elites of that time to maintain their ideological hegemony: in 1515 alone the diocese of Geneva burnt more than 500 ‘witches’.
I also wonder if Brexit as far as the UK is concerned, has also demonstrated just how inept many of our leading politicians and civil servants are. They can no longer blame their failings on the EU so it is all on them now. In time, this may result in a better quality of government, but like most things as a result of Brexit, it’ll likely take till the end of the decade before we see the tangible benefits.
Well said indeed Sir!
Additionally:
The Iraq war saw Blair lead us into a conflict that resulted in .5 ~ 1M deaths, the rise of ISIS, the migrant crisis and rise in terrorism in Europe. No one is held to account.
The financial crisis saw the banking sector commit vast fraud that has for more than a decade strangled much of the western world with debt. No one is held to account.
A complex has formed around the political institutions, the corporate sectors, (particularly tech), the media and a variety of NGOs. This is a network of aligned interests and those interests aren’t yours.
“continuing attempts to overturn the referendum result”
Utter nonsense.
Fact: Britain has left the EU. Fact: No party is seeking to reverse this. Probable fact: The EU doesn’t want Britain back in.
What planet are you on mate?
First 3 paragraphs of your comment are spot-on.
Your last 2 paragraphs are a sentimental attempt (typical of the populist hard left and hard right alike) to absolve the hoi polloi for their mass credulity, semi-literacy and willingness to latch onto any simplistic them-and-us type “answer”.
MPs are ‘of the people’ too. Blaming people you vote for is a bit, er, thick.
Face it, we’re shaved apes, floating in space.
Don’t expect too much.
Distrust in the current political and governmental system.
When I get depressed about all this (frequently) I cheer myself up by going to Parliamentlive.tv to watch some of the select committees at work.
Two uplifting / interesting examples are the griling of Simon Thompson from Royal Mail recently :
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/6d6c6d30-93b4-4555-a8fc-d7c9d6644c2a
and Dominic Cummings making a passionate case for a UK DARPA in front of the Science and Technology Committee in 2021 and the manner in which the members questioned him :
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/0e6bc08b-5aee-47c7-af4d-57bea66d7d7f
Great comment. There is no controlling secretive elite however. What exists are numerous (perhaps thousands) powerful people who have significant influence in their field of of affairs, some of which is limited other perhaps more expansive. This shouldn’t be considered as conspiratorial however, it’s merely the machinations of humanity and our society.
“I agree that much of this has resulted from the continuing attempts to overturn the referendum result, and from the ridiculous authoritarian response to the pandemic.”
Absolutely, but I would also add two more factors:-
i. The elite’s enthusiastic adoption of woke.
ii. The elite’s institutionally racist anti-white pandering to Pakistani paedophile rape gangs.
Interesting to compare the impact of the Internet with that of the printing press and the efforts of the elites of that time to maintain their ideological hegemony: in 1515 alone the diocese of Geneva burnt more than 500 ‘witches’.
It is hard to disagree with much of this. I’ve been voting for 47 years and I have never known the current level of distrust in our entire political and governmental system. I agree that much of this has resulted from the continuing attempts to overturn the referendum result, and from the ridiculous authoritarian response to the pandemic.
It was always the British way to poke fun at leaders while also having quite considerable respect for them and reasonably high levels of trust and obedience.
I think those days are gone – at least for a while – as those who lead us, along with those who aspire to lead us, appear to have become universally utterly despised by huge swathes of the population.
It is quite hard to see how this can be anything other than very unhealthy state of affairs, or to see how our completely shattered trust in our political class might ever be repaired. For centuries they were protected from their own shortcomings by an aura and a mystique which was broadly able to survive newspapers, radio, and television. But it was never going to survive the internet. And it has not.
The internet gave the political class a voice – with which, to our horror, it demonstrated its bigotry, its ignorance, and its contempt for the rest of us. And it gave the people a voice to discuss their monstrous shortcomings. The result is now evident to us all.
“Last year, the claim of a migrant to be a ‘child’ was not accepted by Border Force and they classified the individual as an adult – a decision proven correct by an age test which confirmed the man was, in fact, over 25. The man’s lawyers argued that the officers were not qualified to make that decision and he should have been treated as a minor until the tests proved otherwise. The judge agreed. Costs were awarded against Border Force and the migrant was awarded compensation despite the fact he knowingly made false claims.”
Nothing secretive about this elite judgement that means that the Border Force henceforth are supposed to accept clear lies about an immigrant’s age until they can obtain a positive test showing the true facts.
I understand that teeth are a fairly accurate guide to age for ages up to 21. I very much doubt that it is rocket science to get an accurate age within 2 years from some simple medical checks.
It’s astonishing that we’re making this seem so complicated and difficult. And expensive and slow.
There are some people of strongly negative value who’ve got themselves embedded in these processes who need firing. Now.
I may be wrong (again?) but didn’t tne British Dental Association ask/tell/advise it’s members not to take part in that sort of activity.
I may be wrong (again?) but didn’t tne British Dental Association ask/tell/advise it’s members not to take part in that sort of activity.
I understand that teeth are a fairly accurate guide to age for ages up to 21. I very much doubt that it is rocket science to get an accurate age within 2 years from some simple medical checks.
It’s astonishing that we’re making this seem so complicated and difficult. And expensive and slow.
There are some people of strongly negative value who’ve got themselves embedded in these processes who need firing. Now.
“Last year, the claim of a migrant to be a ‘child’ was not accepted by Border Force and they classified the individual as an adult – a decision proven correct by an age test which confirmed the man was, in fact, over 25. The man’s lawyers argued that the officers were not qualified to make that decision and he should have been treated as a minor until the tests proved otherwise. The judge agreed. Costs were awarded against Border Force and the migrant was awarded compensation despite the fact he knowingly made false claims.”
Nothing secretive about this elite judgement that means that the Border Force henceforth are supposed to accept clear lies about an immigrant’s age until they can obtain a positive test showing the true facts.
There is nothing secretive about elite rule. It is entirely open.
Ah, you get there first. It was my first thought upon reading the first line of the article.
Ah, you get there first. It was my first thought upon reading the first line of the article.
There is nothing secretive about elite rule. It is entirely open.
I worked in and around government for 25 plus years and always worked on the old saw ‘never ascribe to malice what you can explain by stupidity’. Yes, there’s a ‘Deep State’ (in my experience) but it is (was?) more of a shared set of assumed and unchallenged values amongst a subset of powerful people. ‘The ghost in the machine’. Things could change, but slowly and incrementally, managed by ‘grown-ups’ in the Civil Service (and having worked with them, I assure you they’re profoundly unaware of their own inadequacies).
Then came Covid. Anyone who doesn’t think the whole thing was not just a shambles but a deeply sinister shambles needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Nudge units. PsyOps. Masks. Virtual house arrest. “Look into her eyes” adverts. Banging pots and pans. Captain Manwaring would be proud at the petty overreaction of 2020-2022.
I would never have thought ‘That Could Happen Here’. It’s what happens when incompetence meets power (I still don’t believe in conspiracies in the tin-foil hat sense). I hope people realise the difference – governments thinking they are doing good can (and have) do the complete opposite.
Great post.
It is not without reason that I sometimes feel that “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions” should be tattooed on everyone’s forehead. The current widespread societal crumbling is, I reckon, precisely the result of too much ‘good intentions’.
It’s enough to make this non-religious person pine for the days of religion. ‘Back in the day’, people had a certain intellectual humility, fostered in part by their awareness of G-d’s limitless power and knowledge, compared to their feeble own. A catastrophic loss.
I understand where you’re coming from as perceiving the loss of religion, or perhaps more precisely the intellectual humility that may have been lost, as catastrophic. I’m more inclined to see it as a necessary step towards a future where we start to come to terms with our humanity without the need for a comfort blanket. I see our current travails as being in the early stages of that process.
Many things can go wrong of course, but providing we don’t destroy ourselves i see no reason not to be positive about this change in our perception of ourselves, and that the necessary adjustments to our intellectual and more importantly, spiritual life will come about.
I’d expect the peers of those aquatic creatures that first crawled upon land, gasping for a different way of breathing until the adaptation took hold, looked upon those making a seemingly foolish existential decision with horror whilst they remained swimming around in the ocean. (I’m not imputing consciousness to them, just using this as a comparison).
I am of mixed minds on your thoughts here (and shame on the person who down-voted, without explaining what they saw as the problem with this comment).
If things don’t crumble a la the end of the Roman Empire (and maybe even if they do, as long as the Dark Ages – and, yes, I know, modern thinking is that they weren’t so dark – which follows doesn’t loose too much [as we have mostly lost e.g. the work of the Oxyrhynchian historian], and is followed by a New Renaissance), I would agree.
But what will the future hold? Will we instead find the solution to Fermi’s Paradox? Who knows!
Thanks for your intelligent reply, this is what the Comments section is about, even if veering off-topic occasionally.
Could you please give another link for the Oxyrhynchian historian, my ‘Safari’ seems to have a problem with it.
Additionally I disagree, the Dark Ages were very dark indeed, in fact a complete catastrophe for humanity from which we have yet to fully recover.
Thanks for your intelligent reply, this is what the Comments section is about, even if veering off-topic occasionally.
Could you please give another link for the Oxyrhynchian historian, my ‘Safari’ seems to have a problem with it.
Additionally I disagree, the Dark Ages were very dark indeed, in fact a complete catastrophe for humanity from which we have yet to fully recover.
I am of mixed minds on your thoughts here (and shame on the person who down-voted, without explaining what they saw as the problem with this comment).
If things don’t crumble a la the end of the Roman Empire (and maybe even if they do, as long as the Dark Ages – and, yes, I know, modern thinking is that they weren’t so dark – which follows doesn’t loose too much [as we have mostly lost e.g. the work of the Oxyrhynchian historian], and is followed by a New Renaissance), I would agree.
But what will the future hold? Will we instead find the solution to Fermi’s Paradox? Who knows!
I understand where you’re coming from as perceiving the loss of religion, or perhaps more precisely the intellectual humility that may have been lost, as catastrophic. I’m more inclined to see it as a necessary step towards a future where we start to come to terms with our humanity without the need for a comfort blanket. I see our current travails as being in the early stages of that process.
Many things can go wrong of course, but providing we don’t destroy ourselves i see no reason not to be positive about this change in our perception of ourselves, and that the necessary adjustments to our intellectual and more importantly, spiritual life will come about.
I’d expect the peers of those aquatic creatures that first crawled upon land, gasping for a different way of breathing until the adaptation took hold, looked upon those making a seemingly foolish existential decision with horror whilst they remained swimming around in the ocean. (I’m not imputing consciousness to them, just using this as a comparison).
Good post. Thanks.
Totally agree. Don’t ascribe a conspiracy to a group of people who are hopelessly inept.
Agreed. Allow me to suggest that you google “Hanlon’s Razor” for a formalised statement of your principle.
Agreed. Allow me to suggest that you google “Hanlon’s Razor” for a formalised statement of your principle.
Indeed. The “c**k-up” theory of political decision-making, combined with Taleb’s naive interventionism or the need to be seen to be “doing something”. Where incompetence meets unintended consequences.
Great post.
It is not without reason that I sometimes feel that “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions” should be tattooed on everyone’s forehead. The current widespread societal crumbling is, I reckon, precisely the result of too much ‘good intentions’.
It’s enough to make this non-religious person pine for the days of religion. ‘Back in the day’, people had a certain intellectual humility, fostered in part by their awareness of G-d’s limitless power and knowledge, compared to their feeble own. A catastrophic loss.
Good post. Thanks.
Totally agree. Don’t ascribe a conspiracy to a group of people who are hopelessly inept.
Indeed. The “c**k-up” theory of political decision-making, combined with Taleb’s naive interventionism or the need to be seen to be “doing something”. Where incompetence meets unintended consequences.
I worked in and around government for 25 plus years and always worked on the old saw ‘never ascribe to malice what you can explain by stupidity’. Yes, there’s a ‘Deep State’ (in my experience) but it is (was?) more of a shared set of assumed and unchallenged values amongst a subset of powerful people. ‘The ghost in the machine’. Things could change, but slowly and incrementally, managed by ‘grown-ups’ in the Civil Service (and having worked with them, I assure you they’re profoundly unaware of their own inadequacies).
Then came Covid. Anyone who doesn’t think the whole thing was not just a shambles but a deeply sinister shambles needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Nudge units. PsyOps. Masks. Virtual house arrest. “Look into her eyes” adverts. Banging pots and pans. Captain Manwaring would be proud at the petty overreaction of 2020-2022.
I would never have thought ‘That Could Happen Here’. It’s what happens when incompetence meets power (I still don’t believe in conspiracies in the tin-foil hat sense). I hope people realise the difference – governments thinking they are doing good can (and have) do the complete opposite.
We don’t need conspiracy theories anymore, the elites, like the finest sickos in horror movies, tell us what they are going to do to us before they do it…
.”“What we are very proud of now is that the young generation like Prime Minister Trudeau and the President of Argentina and so on, that we penetrate the cabinets.” Klaus Schwab
We don’t need conspiracy theories anymore, the elites, like the finest sickos in horror movies, tell us what they are going to do to us before they do it…
.”“What we are very proud of now is that the young generation like Prime Minister Trudeau and the President of Argentina and so on, that we penetrate the cabinets.” Klaus Schwab
OK, when I talk of the Lizard People running the Davos, and thus: WEF (and so influence: WHO, BIS, IMF, FED,MI-6,DHS, NIH, CDC, CCP, FDA, CIA, FBI, NHS, DOD, et al) I do not actually mean 5th dimension alien lizards disguised as humans like Davide Icke does (and 12 Million Americans believe it as well) I mean it as code for the secretive Elites who own the Deep States, the Education, Entertainment, Social Media, MSM, and all Government Parties, Corporatocracy, Biden, Boris and (the Uniparty) basically Lizard People being the code for: Elites.
Because if I wanted to be literal, to actually call the Elites as they are; and thus all the world’s ills, by name – to say what actually is in charge of so many things now days – I would say it is Satan. Lizard people is just code so I get less down votes, as people here cannot handle the truth.
The world is getting all F***ed Up! and it is Darkness which is spreading over the world. Evil is loose, it is worse than imaginary Lizard People….. Ethics, Morality, Honour, Charity, Family, Faith, Sacrifice, Duty, Decency, Courage, are dieing…… and replacing then is postmodernist Nihilism…..as belief in good and evil is lost….and so Evil may succeed. The Devil’s greatest strength lies in people not believing he exists….
Yeates,
”Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
Although Freddy would call that a conspiracy theory….. I wonder if Giles would……
While I upvoted you because you said important things that ring true, most of the people of the world are actually good, moral, ethical, family oriented etc.
ALL of us have the capacity & tendency to overlook our own failings, first small ones, then when not mindfully acknowledged and corrected, bigger & worse transgressions happen, and then one starts to justify oneself as overall a good person by turning a blind eye to all the evil one unknowingly or knowingly committed . Then apathy creeps & we turn a blind eye to bigger and bigger evil in societies & everyone overlooks these small to big failings, the societies are a mirror image of the individuals that form it. We start accepting failures as norm and project blame at someone else ( society), partly due to lethargy to self correct & partly due to despondency at the society.
Perhaps what conspiracy theorist are feeling is that things are just not right, there is no desire to self censor, hypocrisy is rife, no governmental or societal body that shouts out the “evil”. Too many self centred individuals, for whom wealth and passions are the new god.
Science was meant to be pure and have sound reason behind it, now is conduit to serving an end, no longer a journey of discovery. Its purity has been polluted with greedy & egocentric loud voices who think they represent the society’s best interests.
The world seems, more than ever before, in a state of flux. There is indeed awakening as well. Awakening can cause confusion when new ideas are abounding, some truly visionary, others even more devious. Old & new ways are being challenged . Individually, to stay on a good path, we need to be able to recognise what’s actually good . I feel it can be achieved by self control and self awareness. All religions try to contain those messages. But as is our nature, there are confused individuals who have the tendency to throw the baby out with the bath water. Even atheists are good & have a moral code that govern them.
Self awareness and self control are the best way to keep the “devil” at bay. I feel I can make a difference if I act as I should, with true inner reflection and brutal honest assessment of myself.
Are you referring to the descendants of the Medieval Lizard Union?
As I recall it was dedicated to throwing the Teutonic Knights out of Poland.
I agree with your basic points (things are crumbling at a deep level, etc), but I was struck by your use of “Satan”. Do you mean that literally (as in, what’s going on is the result of his handiwork), or metaphorically?
I ask because I myself am entirely non-religious (somewhere between agnostic and atheist – as in, I suspect G-d does not exist, but cannot prove that He doesn’t), so to me, Satan exists only as a metaphor (albeit a very useful and valuable one).
Still, if you are, do be aware that you may have intellectual/ideological allies outside the boundary of ‘religious people’ – as I see that I may have such allies within (at least, those within who are prepared to accept me without insisting that they cannot accept me unless I conform).
Agreed, I’m not remotely religious, yet I do think that (metaphorically; allegorically) some kind of evil is rising that is manifesting itself in chaos, incivility, greed, brutality, corruption, and a sort of psychopathic transformation of all our institutions.
I appreciate that might sound overblown, but it’s just what I think. And I don’t mean it in any literal kind of angels vs demons way, but simply that the capacity for all the things I mentioned above does exist in humans, and does arise from extreme centralisation of power, as has happened across the west — power is being funnelled ever upwards into the hands of the totally unaccountable and unreachable (in the massive bureaucracies, the mega-corporations, and the supra-national entities). They are behaving like psychopaths, and that is very dangerous and damaging for us all, given how much power they’ve managed to concentrate, and the manner in which they’ve merged with each other.
Incidentally, the merger of the power bases of State and Capital/Business is a dictionary definition of fascism. It’s totalitarian; total… in that both power bases merged and the resulting concentration results in psychopathic levels of brutality, inhumanity and corruption… and that saturates and surrounds everything in a kind of inescapable way. Total capture, of markets, of culture, of levers of power.
…When I look at Davos, and what groups like the WEF are/do, to my eye this is just plainly a revival of fascism — they are arranging mergers of the power bases of State and Capital, and proposing to make them one (“Public / Private Partnerships”). And they want to do all this behind closed doors, out of view and reach of the public who this power will be exercised upon. In some respects, I wish we’d all just start calling it what it is.
Klaus isn’t proposing a new economic model. He’s proposing fascism. Again. This time he’s adding some “green” window dressing and has access to frightening tech tools that will make the 2.0 version a lot more feudal and a lot more global than the 1.0 version, but the core proposition is the same.
Your comment is absolutely spot-on. Western institutions are turning psychopathic. However I believe it doesn’t take a lot to stop them. Just a few people to call it out when they encounter it.
I believe you are wildly optimistic. The rot is already deeply entrenched. Goebbels seduced a nation with ease with his relatively primitive propaganda machine. We are now 90 years of sophistication in social psychology, psy-ops, surveillance and other technologies of manipulation further on. Dissident voices have been teased out of the crowd and are now marked men. Our world is already an intriguing mix of 1984 and Brave New Worlds.
For a remarkable glimpse of currently unfolding events, the serious student should dust off their Bible and refresh their understanding of its prophetic literature, particularly the books of Daniel, Revelation, Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians 2. The history of the future is clearly on display.
As the Aussies say “you’re dreaming”
I believe you are wildly optimistic. The rot is already deeply entrenched. Goebbels seduced a nation with ease with his relatively primitive propaganda machine. We are now 90 years of sophistication in social psychology, psy-ops, surveillance and other technologies of manipulation further on. Dissident voices have been teased out of the crowd and are now marked men. Our world is already an intriguing mix of 1984 and Brave New Worlds.
For a remarkable glimpse of currently unfolding events, the serious student should dust off their Bible and refresh their understanding of its prophetic literature, particularly the books of Daniel, Revelation, Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians 2. The history of the future is clearly on display.
As the Aussies say “you’re dreaming”
Do not exclude the UN from this totalitarian cabal. Agenda 21 has a lot to answer for. Beware Greeks carrying gifts people
Your comment is absolutely spot-on. Western institutions are turning psychopathic. However I believe it doesn’t take a lot to stop them. Just a few people to call it out when they encounter it.
Do not exclude the UN from this totalitarian cabal. Agenda 21 has a lot to answer for. Beware Greeks carrying gifts people
Agreed, I’m not remotely religious, yet I do think that (metaphorically; allegorically) some kind of evil is rising that is manifesting itself in chaos, incivility, greed, brutality, corruption, and a sort of psychopathic transformation of all our institutions.
I appreciate that might sound overblown, but it’s just what I think. And I don’t mean it in any literal kind of angels vs demons way, but simply that the capacity for all the things I mentioned above does exist in humans, and does arise from extreme centralisation of power, as has happened across the west — power is being funnelled ever upwards into the hands of the totally unaccountable and unreachable (in the massive bureaucracies, the mega-corporations, and the supra-national entities). They are behaving like psychopaths, and that is very dangerous and damaging for us all, given how much power they’ve managed to concentrate, and the manner in which they’ve merged with each other.
Incidentally, the merger of the power bases of State and Capital/Business is a dictionary definition of fascism. It’s totalitarian; total… in that both power bases merged and the resulting concentration results in psychopathic levels of brutality, inhumanity and corruption… and that saturates and surrounds everything in a kind of inescapable way. Total capture, of markets, of culture, of levers of power.
…When I look at Davos, and what groups like the WEF are/do, to my eye this is just plainly a revival of fascism — they are arranging mergers of the power bases of State and Capital, and proposing to make them one (“Public / Private Partnerships”). And they want to do all this behind closed doors, out of view and reach of the public who this power will be exercised upon. In some respects, I wish we’d all just start calling it what it is.
Klaus isn’t proposing a new economic model. He’s proposing fascism. Again. This time he’s adding some “green” window dressing and has access to frightening tech tools that will make the 2.0 version a lot more feudal and a lot more global than the 1.0 version, but the core proposition is the same.
While I upvoted you because you said important things that ring true, most of the people of the world are actually good, moral, ethical, family oriented etc.
ALL of us have the capacity & tendency to overlook our own failings, first small ones, then when not mindfully acknowledged and corrected, bigger & worse transgressions happen, and then one starts to justify oneself as overall a good person by turning a blind eye to all the evil one unknowingly or knowingly committed . Then apathy creeps & we turn a blind eye to bigger and bigger evil in societies & everyone overlooks these small to big failings, the societies are a mirror image of the individuals that form it. We start accepting failures as norm and project blame at someone else ( society), partly due to lethargy to self correct & partly due to despondency at the society.
Perhaps what conspiracy theorist are feeling is that things are just not right, there is no desire to self censor, hypocrisy is rife, no governmental or societal body that shouts out the “evil”. Too many self centred individuals, for whom wealth and passions are the new god.
Science was meant to be pure and have sound reason behind it, now is conduit to serving an end, no longer a journey of discovery. Its purity has been polluted with greedy & egocentric loud voices who think they represent the society’s best interests.
The world seems, more than ever before, in a state of flux. There is indeed awakening as well. Awakening can cause confusion when new ideas are abounding, some truly visionary, others even more devious. Old & new ways are being challenged . Individually, to stay on a good path, we need to be able to recognise what’s actually good . I feel it can be achieved by self control and self awareness. All religions try to contain those messages. But as is our nature, there are confused individuals who have the tendency to throw the baby out with the bath water. Even atheists are good & have a moral code that govern them.
Self awareness and self control are the best way to keep the “devil” at bay. I feel I can make a difference if I act as I should, with true inner reflection and brutal honest assessment of myself.
Are you referring to the descendants of the Medieval Lizard Union?
As I recall it was dedicated to throwing the Teutonic Knights out of Poland.
I agree with your basic points (things are crumbling at a deep level, etc), but I was struck by your use of “Satan”. Do you mean that literally (as in, what’s going on is the result of his handiwork), or metaphorically?
I ask because I myself am entirely non-religious (somewhere between agnostic and atheist – as in, I suspect G-d does not exist, but cannot prove that He doesn’t), so to me, Satan exists only as a metaphor (albeit a very useful and valuable one).
Still, if you are, do be aware that you may have intellectual/ideological allies outside the boundary of ‘religious people’ – as I see that I may have such allies within (at least, those within who are prepared to accept me without insisting that they cannot accept me unless I conform).
OK, when I talk of the Lizard People running the Davos, and thus: WEF (and so influence: WHO, BIS, IMF, FED,MI-6,DHS, NIH, CDC, CCP, FDA, CIA, FBI, NHS, DOD, et al) I do not actually mean 5th dimension alien lizards disguised as humans like Davide Icke does (and 12 Million Americans believe it as well) I mean it as code for the secretive Elites who own the Deep States, the Education, Entertainment, Social Media, MSM, and all Government Parties, Corporatocracy, Biden, Boris and (the Uniparty) basically Lizard People being the code for: Elites.
Because if I wanted to be literal, to actually call the Elites as they are; and thus all the world’s ills, by name – to say what actually is in charge of so many things now days – I would say it is Satan. Lizard people is just code so I get less down votes, as people here cannot handle the truth.
The world is getting all F***ed Up! and it is Darkness which is spreading over the world. Evil is loose, it is worse than imaginary Lizard People….. Ethics, Morality, Honour, Charity, Family, Faith, Sacrifice, Duty, Decency, Courage, are dieing…… and replacing then is postmodernist Nihilism…..as belief in good and evil is lost….and so Evil may succeed. The Devil’s greatest strength lies in people not believing he exists….
Yeates,
”Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
Although Freddy would call that a conspiracy theory….. I wonder if Giles would……
I have no issue with being ruled by an elite, and I really don’t care much if they’re secretive. What bothers me is being ruled by an incompetent, corrupt elite.
There will always be a ruling elite, regardless of the political system. In a democracy, however, the elite are supposed to respect and reflect the will of the people. This isn’t happening now.
In fact, I don’t think the ruling elite have much connection any longer with the working class and large swaths of the middle class. That either changes or things could get ugly for everyone.
Not just incompetent and corrupt, but also insane (which I truly mean, in the sense of ‘detached from reality’ – this is not a randomly cast insult) – although that may be subsumed within “incompetent”.
I offer as proof – although this is but an example – the widely-held belief that one can change from a man to a woman (or vice versa) by simply wishing it so.
The list of others is so long it would take a book to express them all, but here’s another one, from a far-distant corner: the rush to ‘invest’ in crypto-currencies. That’s like saying one is going to ‘invest’ in Swiss francs. They’re both a medium of exchange, not an asset that will produce income and/or increase in value (although the francs may do the latter, if the underlying national economy does well).
Note that in both cases, an aspect of “1984” is upon us – Newspeak. The meaning of words is being modified, for other ends.
Don’t forget net zero. We know it will lead to economic calamity and they know it will lead to economic calamity. And yet we are here, racing toward economic calamity.
“I offer as proof – although this is but an example – the widely-held belief that one can change from a man to a woman (or vice versa) by simply wishing it so.”
YES! Exactly.
Don’t forget net zero. We know it will lead to economic calamity and they know it will lead to economic calamity. And yet we are here, racing toward economic calamity.
“I offer as proof – although this is but an example – the widely-held belief that one can change from a man to a woman (or vice versa) by simply wishing it so.”
YES! Exactly.
The problem is the elite aren’t our elected representatives but operate outside of democracy – UN, IMF, World Bank, EU. Then you get the billionaires and media moguls. The more I think of it the more I’m Inclined to think of Private Frazer’s catchphrase in Dad’s Army: “We’re Doomed”
Not just incompetent and corrupt, but also insane (which I truly mean, in the sense of ‘detached from reality’ – this is not a randomly cast insult) – although that may be subsumed within “incompetent”.
I offer as proof – although this is but an example – the widely-held belief that one can change from a man to a woman (or vice versa) by simply wishing it so.
The list of others is so long it would take a book to express them all, but here’s another one, from a far-distant corner: the rush to ‘invest’ in crypto-currencies. That’s like saying one is going to ‘invest’ in Swiss francs. They’re both a medium of exchange, not an asset that will produce income and/or increase in value (although the francs may do the latter, if the underlying national economy does well).
Note that in both cases, an aspect of “1984” is upon us – Newspeak. The meaning of words is being modified, for other ends.
The problem is the elite aren’t our elected representatives but operate outside of democracy – UN, IMF, World Bank, EU. Then you get the billionaires and media moguls. The more I think of it the more I’m Inclined to think of Private Frazer’s catchphrase in Dad’s Army: “We’re Doomed”
I have no issue with being ruled by an elite, and I really don’t care much if they’re secretive. What bothers me is being ruled by an incompetent, corrupt elite.
There will always be a ruling elite, regardless of the political system. In a democracy, however, the elite are supposed to respect and reflect the will of the people. This isn’t happening now.
In fact, I don’t think the ruling elite have much connection any longer with the working class and large swaths of the middle class. That either changes or things could get ugly for everyone.
For sure I don’t know who governs Britain.
Why and by whom was Johnson ejected?
Who torpedoed Truss?
Who decided that Sunak should be Prime Minister?
Are all these events organic, natural, expressing the will of the people? I don’t think so…
You guys want a plebiscite democracy. Not a representative one. You just haven’t quite worked that out yet, as most of you conspiracy theorists seemingly are unaware of the difference.
We don’t have a representative democracy. Didn’t you notice?
We don’t really have much of a democracy in the UK now. It has been leached away from the voters.
We don’t have a representative democracy. Didn’t you notice?
We don’t really have much of a democracy in the UK now. It has been leached away from the voters.
And who also quarterbacked the multi-pronged destruction of Corbyn?
Freddy’s sideswipe at Labour anti-semitism suggests he has some unlearning to do on that front. There is not an anti-semitic bone in Corbyn’s body.
Bo11ocks.
Seconded.
Please see above!
Please see above!
Please see above!
It is always hard for one’s assumptions and beliefs to be confounded especially when the counter narrative contradicts the prevailing and in this case manufactured mass consensus. But I humbly invite you to review the work of former Guardian dep foreign editor Jonathan Cook who was based until recently in Nazareth, at https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2022-02-17/uproar-smearing-starmer-corbyn/ among his other articles on the subject, and also https://www.mintpressnews.com/britains-labour-party-became-criminal-conspiracy-members/282071/ Israel was fully involved working with Labour right (and dear old 77th brigade working magic too)
Seconded.
Please see above!
It is always hard for one’s assumptions and beliefs to be confounded especially when the counter narrative contradicts the prevailing and in this case manufactured mass consensus. But I humbly invite you to review the work of former Guardian dep foreign editor Jonathan Cook who was based until recently in Nazareth, at https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2022-02-17/uproar-smearing-starmer-corbyn/ among his other articles on the subject, and also https://www.mintpressnews.com/britains-labour-party-became-criminal-conspiracy-members/282071/ Israel was fully involved working with Labour right (and dear old 77th brigade working magic too)
V
Bo11ocks.
V
You guys want a plebiscite democracy. Not a representative one. You just haven’t quite worked that out yet, as most of you conspiracy theorists seemingly are unaware of the difference.
And who also quarterbacked the multi-pronged destruction of Corbyn?
Freddy’s sideswipe at Labour anti-semitism suggests he has some unlearning to do on that front. There is not an anti-semitic bone in Corbyn’s body.
For sure I don’t know who governs Britain.
Why and by whom was Johnson ejected?
Who torpedoed Truss?
Who decided that Sunak should be Prime Minister?
Are all these events organic, natural, expressing the will of the people? I don’t think so…
With apologies to Philip Larkin …
They f**k things up, your Gates & Schwabs.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill the world with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were f****d up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t trust the globalists yourself.
That’s really good!
That’s really good!
With apologies to Philip Larkin …
They f**k things up, your Gates & Schwabs.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill the world with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were f****d up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t trust the globalists yourself.
I reckon I’m about as far from a conspiracy theorist as their is, but to me the observation that ‘there is an elite which tries to control things, often (usually?) in their own interests’ is about as novel as saying ‘gravity exists’.
A great article, filled to the brim with important insights, e.g. “It is when the “Overton Window” is too narrow, not too wide, that politics feels fake and conspiracies abound. The distrust that now cuts across society is not the fault of a few small-time cranks and bad-faith opportunists — it is overwhelmingly the creation of elites who consistently tried to deny the electorate real choices.” Ba-da-boom!
> “It is when the “Overton Window” is too narrow, not too wide, that politics feels fake and conspiracies abound.
As the great philosopher Sir Francis Bacon observed in the early 1600s:
“Tempests of state are commonly greatest when things grow to equality; as natural tempests are greatest about the equinox: and as there are certain hollow blasts of wind and secret swellings of seas before a tempest, so are there in states: “Ille etiam cæcos instare tumultus Sæpe monet, fraudesque et operta tumescere bella.”
(Not sure what the Latin quote means, or where it is from, but doubtless every other reader here will be familiar with it 🙂 )
Edit:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Essays_of_Francis_Bacon_1908_Scott.djvu/170
He also often warns the blind that tumult is imminent, and frauds and wars are ripening undetected.
He also often warns the blind that tumult is imminent, and frauds and wars are ripening undetected.
> “It is when the “Overton Window” is too narrow, not too wide, that politics feels fake and conspiracies abound.
As the great philosopher Sir Francis Bacon observed in the early 1600s:
“Tempests of state are commonly greatest when things grow to equality; as natural tempests are greatest about the equinox: and as there are certain hollow blasts of wind and secret swellings of seas before a tempest, so are there in states: “Ille etiam cæcos instare tumultus Sæpe monet, fraudesque et operta tumescere bella.”
(Not sure what the Latin quote means, or where it is from, but doubtless every other reader here will be familiar with it 🙂 )
Edit:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Essays_of_Francis_Bacon_1908_Scott.djvu/170
I reckon I’m about as far from a conspiracy theorist as their is, but to me the observation that ‘there is an elite which tries to control things, often (usually?) in their own interests’ is about as novel as saying ‘gravity exists’.
A great article, filled to the brim with important insights, e.g. “It is when the “Overton Window” is too narrow, not too wide, that politics feels fake and conspiracies abound. The distrust that now cuts across society is not the fault of a few small-time cranks and bad-faith opportunists — it is overwhelmingly the creation of elites who consistently tried to deny the electorate real choices.” Ba-da-boom!
I’m a bit worried about these UnHerd polls – I think the questions are wrong… or at least badly phrased.
This week its “The world is controlled by a secretive elite.”” Which leaves those who believe the world (or at least the UK) is run by an unelected cabal of elites in a difficult position – no I don’t agree with the exact wording but I do agree with the sentiment.
Last week’s question was equally loaded – using a form of double negative to confuse the subject – I suspect that there are large numbers who didn’t realise their answer would be interpreted as “we got Brexit wrong”
I don’t think we learn anything useful from opinion polls that ask one highly loaded question and have no room for nuance.
As Yes Minister accurately satirised opinion polls:
Are you worried about the number of young people without jobs?
Are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?
Do you think there is lack of discipline in our comprehensive schools?
Do you think young people welcome some authority and leadership in their lives?
Do you think they’ll respond to a challenge?
Would you be in favour of reintroducing National Service?”
Amen to this observation.
Would like to be privy to what assumptions they used in their MRP modelling as well.
However, 10/10 on the clickbait / number of comments measure !
As Yes Minister accurately satirised opinion polls:
Are you worried about the number of young people without jobs?
Are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?
Do you think there is lack of discipline in our comprehensive schools?
Do you think young people welcome some authority and leadership in their lives?
Do you think they’ll respond to a challenge?
Would you be in favour of reintroducing National Service?”
Amen to this observation.
Would like to be privy to what assumptions they used in their MRP modelling as well.
However, 10/10 on the clickbait / number of comments measure !
I’m a bit worried about these UnHerd polls – I think the questions are wrong… or at least badly phrased.
This week its “The world is controlled by a secretive elite.”” Which leaves those who believe the world (or at least the UK) is run by an unelected cabal of elites in a difficult position – no I don’t agree with the exact wording but I do agree with the sentiment.
Last week’s question was equally loaded – using a form of double negative to confuse the subject – I suspect that there are large numbers who didn’t realise their answer would be interpreted as “we got Brexit wrong”
I don’t think we learn anything useful from opinion polls that ask one highly loaded question and have no room for nuance.
Beware! Yesterday’s essay entitled “Will the Ukraine survive Russia’s spring offensive?” garnered 60 comments.
As of 0732GMT today only 16 have escaped the Censor’s knife.
I noticed. I don’t think they liked my facts. I was half way through toasting Billy Bob and poof, flagged off again I think.
I can see 69 now.
Said that, at UnHerd they try their best to sow distrust..
I don’t think so, I’ve been posting here a while, I replied to a poster, two minutes later the whole lot was flagged off, pretty late last night so I doubt it was unherd.
Ms Emery as Arkadian X has kindly noted, as of 10.00GMT ‘they’ are back!
Completely bonkers!
I suspect other users not so open to the different anti war arguments attempting shadow ban by persistent flagging. It happened on the last thread too. Lowest of the low. Its not a problem, they will undermine themselves eventually.
An obvious solution to that is for comment suspends to take effect only on those flagged by more than one person. Wisdom of the crowd and all that.
Heavily downvoted comments are removed too and that is almost certainly automated.
It’s a reason I rarely downvote as disagreeing (even strongly) with something is not reason for it to be removed.
These were not down voted, my last post late last night was only up for five minutes it didn’t have chance….
I had no idea that happened. I thought it was just expressing an opinion on the comment. I will desist downvoting forthwith
These were not down voted, my last post late last night was only up for five minutes it didn’t have chance….
I had no idea that happened. I thought it was just expressing an opinion on the comment. I will desist downvoting forthwith
An obvious solution to that is for comment suspends to take effect only on those flagged by more than one person. Wisdom of the crowd and all that.
Heavily downvoted comments are removed too and that is almost certainly automated.
It’s a reason I rarely downvote as disagreeing (even strongly) with something is not reason for it to be removed.
I suspect other users not so open to the different anti war arguments attempting shadow ban by persistent flagging. It happened on the last thread too. Lowest of the low. Its not a problem, they will undermine themselves eventually.
Ms Emery as Arkadian X has kindly noted, as of 10.00GMT ‘they’ are back!
Completely bonkers!
Thanks!
What on earth is going on?
I don’t think so, I’ve been posting here a while, I replied to a poster, two minutes later the whole lot was flagged off, pretty late last night so I doubt it was unherd.
Thanks!
What on earth is going on?
This is interesting. Your saying that Unheard removes comments on a regular bias? That would be truly ironic given their name.
Yes they ‘disappear’ for some hours, then reappear! By which time the discussion is usually dead!
So they are effectively unherd. Any particular kind of comments?
As far as I know I’m 0-3 getting comments about race and Wu H@n F1u past the censors or flaggers; though I haven’t checked to see if these ever resurfaced.
I began to suspect certain phrases, such as “Wu H@n F1u” or “bl@ck undercla55,” when properly spelled, tended to lead to Disappearing Comment Syndrome.
I locate my most hyperbolic tone when it comes to the War of the Sexes but somehow my chauvinistic commentary manages to survive unscathed for all to see.
As far as I can tell, the articles with the greatest number of comments in purgatory, presumably awaiting judgment, tend to be about Russia and Ukraine.