June 23, 2023 - 8:30pm
Anime has become so pervasive that even people such as Andrew Tate are using it for marketing. There can be any number of practical reasons for his decision to post more two-dimensional women than three-dimensional ones, recently being charged with rape and human trafficking not being the least among them, but it’s also a trend bellwether.
Anime, and more particularly, the idea that anime women are superior to flesh-and-blood women, isn’t new. In the mainstream, these ideas have been circulating as a punchline for over a decade: in 2010, James Franco appeared on 30 Rock with a dakimakura, a Japanese body pillow with an anime “waifu” printed on it. Online, this idea is about as old as the Internet itself, though picked up in the mid-2000s. In Japan, the phenomenon can be traced back to at least the 1970s, and in fact, may even be much older. What is different, however, is that in recent years, the sentiment has taken on new political salience though, as anime has become something of a “lingua franca” among disaffected young men.
There’s a little-explored theory that says there’s something about narrative structures and themes that are common in anime that’s more appealing to the autistic mind. And so, the theory goes, as autistic populations grow, so does the popularity of anime. But more likely, anime’s mass appeal can be explained by the fact that it remains untouched by American social politics. There is no wokeness in anime; no enforced political correctness; no anime equivalent of a black Little Mermaid. One way to conceptualise anime is that it’s an artifact from a pre-GamerGate media landscape. The mores that, for some, stifle Hollywood’s (or the video game industry’s) creativity have no cachet in Japan. Because of this, anime can better reflect the values that certain young men long for.
This becomes particularly true in anime’s depiction of women. Anime women are emblematic of qualities that some men believe no longer exist in 3D women: they’re virginal; they’re fit and pretty; they’re feminine; they’re not “stained” by the values of third-wave feminism. Anime women can also be canvasses to project your own ideals on, especially if you’re engaging with original art, as opposed to fan art.
There are also men who aren’t comparing human women to anime women at all. Rather, these men are so disconnected from the physical world, they view anime women as “real women” and human women as a cheap imitation of femininity.
These beliefs manifest sincerely and ironically in equal measure, and young men aren’t the only population to engage in them. In Left-leaning, female-dominated communities, like slash fandoms, something similar happens with certain fictional depictions of men. In these communities, twinkish, often gay men are explicitly elevated as superior to physical-world men because they lack traits deemed as “toxically masculine.”
Certain types of anime can also function as an important signal of group membership. In some Right-wing Internet communities, posting pictures of young anime girls in sexually compromising situations, known as “loli” or, colloquially, “cunnyposting,” can be (but importantly, not exclusively) used as a gatekeeping tactic. Loli is controversial even among dissident online spaces, as there are many people who consider it to be tantamount to child pornography.
A willingness to post loli can, therefore, be a mark of authenticity, as the barrier to entry for “dissident” spaces lowers, and the boundaries become more porous. Loli is one of the last taboos. Whereas more people may be more comfortable anonymously or pseudonymously posting a slur, remarking on racial differences, or sharing incendiary opinions like, “Hitler was a good man,” fewer will post loli. Thus, it shows a willingness to be in these communities beyond a desire to be contrarian, edgy, or to go where the energy is.
It remains to be seen how long this taboo will last.
Katherine Dee is a writer. To read more of her work, visit defaultfriend.substack.com.
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SubscribeI like an Unherd piece that is more concerned with description of a social development than commentary on it.
I also found this particularly intriguing since I know a young man with an interest in anime. I am fairly certain he would reject much of the rationale described here, but I think one part rings true – the idea that anime is divorced from American culture wars makes it a free space, unencumbered by the tiresome political debates that infect most other forms of entertainment in the current American media landscape.
Yes, the culture wars are entering the realm of computer games too. Once a refuge for young men, it’s rapidly become woke. Lord of the Rings Online recently introduced trans-women, an avatar type no-one asked for. Anyone who complained was immediately banned from the fora. Those propagating the culture wars seem to want to curb men’s creative spaces, much like they are doing to women in actual real spaces.
I’m currently working in Eastern Europe. It’s so refreshing to be somewhere that is non-Westernized.
Yes, the culture wars are entering the realm of computer games too. Once a refuge for young men, it’s rapidly become woke. Lord of the Rings Online recently introduced trans-women, an avatar type no-one asked for. Anyone who complained was immediately banned from the fora. Those propagating the culture wars seem to want to curb men’s creative spaces, much like they are doing to women in actual real spaces.
I’m currently working in Eastern Europe. It’s so refreshing to be somewhere that is non-Westernized.
I like an Unherd piece that is more concerned with description of a social development than commentary on it.
I also found this particularly intriguing since I know a young man with an interest in anime. I am fairly certain he would reject much of the rationale described here, but I think one part rings true – the idea that anime is divorced from American culture wars makes it a free space, unencumbered by the tiresome political debates that infect most other forms of entertainment in the current American media landscape.
My son was passionate about Anime when he was younger (he is not autistic). He wanted to share his passion with me and asked me to watch Fullmetal Alchemist. This was in 2009 when he was eighteen waiting to start university. Fullmetal Alchemist struck me as a wholesome, traditional hero tale. I approved of his choice of male role model.
My son was passionate about Anime when he was younger (he is not autistic). He wanted to share his passion with me and asked me to watch Fullmetal Alchemist. This was in 2009 when he was eighteen waiting to start university. Fullmetal Alchemist struck me as a wholesome, traditional hero tale. I approved of his choice of male role model.
Two comments… first, it’s cheating a little to refer to another of your own articles as a reference source.
Secondly, if you think there are a lot of disaffected young men now just wait, there are going to be many more in the future. Societal breakdown won’t happen tomorrow but unless the government takes action it’s going to be a massive problem.
Two comments… first, it’s cheating a little to refer to another of your own articles as a reference source.
Secondly, if you think there are a lot of disaffected young men now just wait, there are going to be many more in the future. Societal breakdown won’t happen tomorrow but unless the government takes action it’s going to be a massive problem.
Its refreshing to hear of a community managing so far to maintain its own identity and core creativity without being mauled and wrecked by outsiders. Surely the drawn creative illustrations can be separated to abusive human contact. I mean it works with violence and sci-fi fantasy.
Its refreshing to hear of a community managing so far to maintain its own identity and core creativity without being mauled and wrecked by outsiders. Surely the drawn creative illustrations can be separated to abusive human contact. I mean it works with violence and sci-fi fantasy.
The experiences and attitudes of groups of men are mentioned throughout without any supporting evidence from the subjects of those supposed attitudes – men.
The interpretive ground is carefully seeded from the off with a nod to Andrew Tate and his alleged crimes with him photographed in front of heavily stylised anime drawings of females.
The article then proceeds to implicate young men and men in various negative behaviours as the narrative arc is fitted into the already seeded ground.
I would like to hear the voices of young men and men in general regarding their own experiences and attitudes, rather than having hearsay as a substitute.
That’s about right. When you put it like that, the piece is not too different than 90s USA culture war rumors that X movie or Y game will turn your kids to the occult.
That’s about right. When you put it like that, the piece is not too different than 90s USA culture war rumors that X movie or Y game will turn your kids to the occult.
The experiences and attitudes of groups of men are mentioned throughout without any supporting evidence from the subjects of those supposed attitudes – men.
The interpretive ground is carefully seeded from the off with a nod to Andrew Tate and his alleged crimes with him photographed in front of heavily stylised anime drawings of females.
The article then proceeds to implicate young men and men in various negative behaviours as the narrative arc is fitted into the already seeded ground.
I would like to hear the voices of young men and men in general regarding their own experiences and attitudes, rather than having hearsay as a substitute.
Anime appeals more to the autistic… Based on what? Just drop a generalized personal opinion and move on I guess….
People in our culture view animation as childish, and so get cognitive dissonance when trying to understand anime. The form of anime emerged as a practical necessity in order to tell stories on screen when there was not the film capabilities to do so.
You can cherry pick all the weirdest imagery and shibboleths from that arena, but broadly it is an art form for telling stories to people who are of age, and it’s stories often are psychologically sophisticated and moving.
Most importantly in this conversation, real anime had to be viewed in the light of Japanese culture. There are however plenty of series where you can especially see external Western sexual and ecological dogma get infused.
Anime appeals more to the autistic… Based on what? Just drop a generalized personal opinion and move on I guess….
People in our culture view animation as childish, and so get cognitive dissonance when trying to understand anime. The form of anime emerged as a practical necessity in order to tell stories on screen when there was not the film capabilities to do so.
You can cherry pick all the weirdest imagery and shibboleths from that arena, but broadly it is an art form for telling stories to people who are of age, and it’s stories often are psychologically sophisticated and moving.
Most importantly in this conversation, real anime had to be viewed in the light of Japanese culture. There are however plenty of series where you can especially see external Western sexual and ecological dogma get infused.
who cares? means f… all to me? Why not have a similarly important piece on, say, the molecular construction of the window glass on proposed underground trains for the planet Jupiter?
I must say that the piece on Anime seems very superficial indeed.
Far from starting in the 1970s – perhaps older, it is normally considered to date from the 1900s.
Not even a mention of the related field of Manga, nor of the “weird” (or pornographic) Hentai.
No need, I think to drag Tate into the piece!
I suspect the writer may have wandered into a college “Japanese day” event. And wandered out again 25 minutes later.
I must say that the piece on Anime seems very superficial indeed.
Far from starting in the 1970s – perhaps older, it is normally considered to date from the 1900s.
Not even a mention of the related field of Manga, nor of the “weird” (or pornographic) Hentai.
No need, I think to drag Tate into the piece!
I suspect the writer may have wandered into a college “Japanese day” event. And wandered out again 25 minutes later.
who cares? means f… all to me? Why not have a similarly important piece on, say, the molecular construction of the window glass on proposed underground trains for the planet Jupiter?