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Andrew Raiment
AR
Andrew Raiment
2 years ago

Why bother taking universities too seriously…

Simon Coulthard
GD
Simon Coulthard
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Raiment

Because they help form a large proportion of the next generation and have a great influence on future morals and policy?

Andrew Raiment
AR
Andrew Raiment
2 years ago

You mean all those useless social science graduates that have been pushed out over the last 20 years, versed in idiotic ideologies such as Post-modernism and Critical Theory, and not good governance. Too stupid to recognise fallacy and paradox.

Simon Coulthard
GD
Simon Coulthard
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Raiment

Well yes them. But also all our doctors, lawyers and scientists. My point being that universities are not insignificant to our society.

Andrew Raiment
AR
Andrew Raiment
2 years ago

Indeed. My original comment was flippant but it appears there are serious problems within our universities that do need addressing, especially since those ideologies are now “infecting” the natural sciences.

Last edited 2 years ago by Andrew Raiment
Simon Coulthard
GD
Simon Coulthard
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Raiment

Oh my so many problems you’re right. The stifling of real debate and cancellation of tenured professions who go against the currently accepted theory. It’s mad

Andrew Raiment
AR
Andrew Raiment
2 years ago

You go to universities to learn, not learn garbage. Why are universities now teaching garbage?

Last edited 2 years ago by Andrew Raiment
Alka Hughes-Hallett
AH
Alka Hughes-Hallett
2 years ago

Previously respectful professions i.e. Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists are all now corruptible and untrustworthy. When scientists can stifle debate, science from their papers and scientific journals becomes meaningless. When doctors can worry more about reputation & play politics or dish out cures to save being taken to court then it’s hard to believe them. I think I’ll go with lawyers . The most honest bunch.

Andrew McDonald
AM
Andrew McDonald
2 years ago

Can’t remember who it was who said a few decades ago : ‘In California the research labs are using lawyers now instead of rats – there are more of them, and there’s less emotional attachment…’ Hope this has come true by now.

Alastair Herd
AH
Alastair Herd
2 years ago

The University league tables are a joke. Institutions shoot up and down them by just gaming the requirements while not really doing anything to improve the quality of the education to the purchaser.

While I was studying at my Russel Group University I spoke to my Tutor about struggling with the STEM course after a significant period of illness (just so you don’t call me snowflake). His advice was to sign up for the Masters! Despite being the head of all Undergradute wellbeing he was more interested in things that look good on paper than genuine student outcomes.

As someone who voted Brexit I must give it to the Europeans that their universities seem a damn sight better at actual education than ours do…

Jon Redman
HJ
Jon Redman
2 years ago
Reply to  Alastair Herd

I strongly suspect that the dominance of universities in English-speaking countries in these tables is a consequence of how they are compiled. If it’s based on subjective views of their research, then German universities’ research that is published in German will not score many brownie points. There are probably fifteen times more people living in countries where English is used than in countries where German is used, which seems certain to affect how German language research is perceived (i.e. it mostly is not perceived at all).

Jon Redman
HJ
Jon Redman
2 years ago

Clearly a fair bit of what goes into these various rankings is subjective opinion, or is unrelated – maybe even inverse – to the actual intellectual rigour involved. Ratings that reflect how much the students are enjoying it could easily be a proxy for how cushy the place is.
More informative would be to know the average A-Level grades held by the entrants; the percentage of its graduates that is unemployed after a year; and the average graduate salary ten years on. Ideally you would have this sorted by degree subject and / or class.
Taken together, this tells you roughly how smart the cohort is to begin with but also what difference the university makes for them. Sure, you can argue that A-Levels don’t measure smarts, but that’s fine – if people with the best A-Levels aren’t very smart after all, the other two measurements will expose this.
One interesting thing that emerges from the above is that there are 5 times as many candidates with Oxbridge standard A-Levels as there are places there. There are 47,000 students at Oxbridge, so inferentially there are 190,000 elsewhere with much the same grades. As the average UK tertiary has 15,000 students enrolled, there are about 12 more whose students have Oxbridge grades. The first rank of UK universities therefore contains not two universities, but about 14.
The other thing that surprises is that notoriously “useless” courses like Media Studies have a very high employment rate. The money is not great, but neither is the money if you read English Literature at Oxford. Stats like this tell you whether the job and pay situation is poor because the course is worthless, or because its graduates are preening entitled delusional pseudo-intellectual left-wing gobs4ites who consider real work beneath them and are waiting for the right charity or quango post to come along.

Jane Morris-Jones
JM
Jane Morris-Jones
2 years ago

When I was a student in the 70s it was reckoned that academics split about 60/40 left to right in political orientation; that is now estimated to be 90/10, to the grave damage of free speech and exploratory debate. I think this metric ought to be included in the measure of excellence to highlight where students might get the best value in terms of mind-stretching…

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