How does a migrant population of unemployed and underemployed people, despite crushing labour shortages, who are creating social unrest * result from * tightened immigration controls? Surely it is the consequence of failing to tighten controls in the way promised.
The assumption that by importing Africans we will create new Europeans is false: we seem instead to be creating a new Africa.
East Africans in the US are all stars. They do well academically. If immigrants have the structure/stable government, they flourish and outperform the stagnant base population. As an immigrant in the US, I’ve noticed most engineering grad students in my cohort were immigrants. Young white people in the US don’t want to work very hard. They are more focused on gender ideology and “sticking it to the man”. They find words like “rich” and “capitalism” to be vile. Just be glad be people are migrating, they are many country’s only hope.
East Africans in the US are all stars. They do well academically. If immigrants have the structure/stable government, they flourish and outperform the stagnant base population. As an immigrant in the US, I’ve noticed most engineering grad students in my cohort were immigrants. Young white people in the US don’t want to work very hard. They are more focused on gender ideology and “sticking it to the man”. They find words like “rich” and “capitalism” to be vile. Just be glad be people are migrating, they are many country’s only hope.
They will just just succeed in turning this country into the same S***hole that they came from
CM
Christian Moon
11 months ago
How does a migrant population of unemployed and underemployed people, despite crushing labour shortages, who are creating social unrest * result from * tightened immigration controls? Surely it is the consequence of failing to tighten controls in the way promised.
The assumption that by importing Africans we will create new Europeans is false: we seem instead to be creating a new Africa.
Last edited 11 months ago by Christian Moon
JB
J Bryant
11 months ago
My question to Mr. Kotkin (in the unlikely event he reads the comments section) is can we manage population decline while maintaining cultural continuity, a decent standard of living, and economic opportunity in the West? Isn’t that Japan’s goal with its resistance to immigration and cultural dilution, and a dependence on off-shoring a huge amount of its manufacturing and any other economic activity that can be off-shored?
The local authorities, and as far as I can tell (I’ve lived here nearly thirty years) they use Japanese employees. You’ll find foreign students manning the night shift in supermarkets and convenience stores, and quite a few foreigners in manufacturing jobs. The students will go home when their courses finish, their visas run out, or they will be employable enough to get a work visa. The foreign worker visas will come to an end when their employment does. After ten or so years of paying tax and generally showing that you’re capable of being a worthwhile citizen you can get permanent residency.
This foreigner fully approves, and is happy that the Japanese require incomers to meet certain standards. That way the whole country can continue to do so.
In the last ten years I have visited Japan twice – but never Tokyo. When I landed I travelled by bus for four hours to Hitachi City, passing through many villages and towns. The streets were so clean that it was a shock to the system. This shows up the UK very badly.
Many newspapers wrote stories about Japanese fans during the World Cup – taking away all of their detritus from the stadiums. This is a way of life in Japan and immigrants could harm this sense of pride.
What is the solution in the UK when we have no pride ourselves? Immigration, I think. We can perhaps rely on new people who do have more pride. So we have the opposite situation to Japan.
How can we stop theft and bad behaviour in the UK? Everybody wants the criminals to win. Sharia Law is the only hope.
There are plenty of people in the UK who have pride in the places where they live and look after it. Only two generations ago this was almost universal. There’s absolutely no reason we cannot do this. We’ve just been setting and tolerating low standards for too long.
You seem rather confused. You clearly believe that immigration is bad for Japan, but would save Britain.
We have a perfectly good legal system – and one that is far superior to Sharia Law. Once again, we have not been applying it rigorously.
Set and accept low standards – get poor results.
There are plenty of people in the UK who have pride in the places where they live and look after it. Only two generations ago this was almost universal. There’s absolutely no reason we cannot do this. We’ve just been setting and tolerating low standards for too long.
You seem rather confused. You clearly believe that immigration is bad for Japan, but would save Britain.
We have a perfectly good legal system – and one that is far superior to Sharia Law. Once again, we have not been applying it rigorously.
Set and accept low standards – get poor results.
I would be interested to know your overall experience as a longtime immigrant in Japan. Do they accept you or are you always reminded you’re an outsider? What about the workplace–is there subtle (or not so subtle) discrimination?
Almost certainly the latter. I’ve seen Korea – very little immigration and while there are a few Indians working there, they usually aren’t on the direct payroll and won’t be managers. I don’t believe you’re actually prevented from doing anything or treated worse (customer service is universally excellent), but you probably won’t get the same career opportunities.
But what’s the problem with “discrimination” here ? It’s their country and their rules. You either respect that or you don’t. I ended up having a lot of respect for the Koreans. We wouldn’t want to live the way they do, but they’ve been hugely successful and deserve to be.
Almost certainly the latter. I’ve seen Korea – very little immigration and while there are a few Indians working there, they usually aren’t on the direct payroll and won’t be managers. I don’t believe you’re actually prevented from doing anything or treated worse (customer service is universally excellent), but you probably won’t get the same career opportunities.
But what’s the problem with “discrimination” here ? It’s their country and their rules. You either respect that or you don’t. I ended up having a lot of respect for the Koreans. We wouldn’t want to live the way they do, but they’ve been hugely successful and deserve to be.
In the last ten years I have visited Japan twice – but never Tokyo. When I landed I travelled by bus for four hours to Hitachi City, passing through many villages and towns. The streets were so clean that it was a shock to the system. This shows up the UK very badly.
Many newspapers wrote stories about Japanese fans during the World Cup – taking away all of their detritus from the stadiums. This is a way of life in Japan and immigrants could harm this sense of pride.
What is the solution in the UK when we have no pride ourselves? Immigration, I think. We can perhaps rely on new people who do have more pride. So we have the opposite situation to Japan.
How can we stop theft and bad behaviour in the UK? Everybody wants the criminals to win. Sharia Law is the only hope.
I would be interested to know your overall experience as a longtime immigrant in Japan. Do they accept you or are you always reminded you’re an outsider? What about the workplace–is there subtle (or not so subtle) discrimination?
The local authorities, and as far as I can tell (I’ve lived here nearly thirty years) they use Japanese employees. You’ll find foreign students manning the night shift in supermarkets and convenience stores, and quite a few foreigners in manufacturing jobs. The students will go home when their courses finish, their visas run out, or they will be employable enough to get a work visa. The foreign worker visas will come to an end when their employment does. After ten or so years of paying tax and generally showing that you’re capable of being a worthwhile citizen you can get permanent residency.
This foreigner fully approves, and is happy that the Japanese require incomers to meet certain standards. That way the whole country can continue to do so.
The UK BAME population stands at around 12 million or 19%, thus it’s all over for us.
Some years ago now someone, I forget who, made this rather apposite comment:- “As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see ‘the River Tiber foaming with much blood’.”
There is a bitter irony to all this as it was the UK that brought Japan, kicking and squealing into the modern world!
Yes, that was Enoch Powell’s famous (infamous?) “rivers of blood” speech and it ended his political career (just as a similar speech would end a political career today). But he was prescient.
It didn’t actually end his political career. Just his prospect of senior office. Which he probably wasn’t that well suited to. Certainly one of Tony Benn’s “signposts” rather than “weathervanes”.
He was still highly influential in the 1970 and 1974 elections. Had an ability to connect with ordinary people in marginal constituencies like the West Midlands perhaps not really seen again until Boris Johnson’s Red Wall breakthrough.
He laid much of the groundwork for free market economics and privatisation.
He was still a regular on Radio 4 for at least a decade after this speech. Still listened to in silence in the Commons during the Falklands debate in 1982. They hadn’t invented cancellation in those – frankly better – days those.
Quite mistaken I think to believe that his influence ended on 20th April 1968.
It didn’t actually end his political career. Just his prospect of senior office. Which he probably wasn’t that well suited to. Certainly one of Tony Benn’s “signposts” rather than “weathervanes”.
He was still highly influential in the 1970 and 1974 elections. Had an ability to connect with ordinary people in marginal constituencies like the West Midlands perhaps not really seen again until Boris Johnson’s Red Wall breakthrough.
He laid much of the groundwork for free market economics and privatisation.
He was still a regular on Radio 4 for at least a decade after this speech. Still listened to in silence in the Commons during the Falklands debate in 1982. They hadn’t invented cancellation in those – frankly better – days those.
Quite mistaken I think to believe that his influence ended on 20th April 1968.
Yes, that was Enoch Powell’s famous (infamous?) “rivers of blood” speech and it ended his political career (just as a similar speech would end a political career today). But he was prescient.
The UK BAME population stands at around 12 million or 19%, thus it’s all over for us.
Some years ago now someone, I forget who, made this rather apposite comment:- “As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see ‘the River Tiber foaming with much blood’.”
There is a bitter irony to all this as it was the UK that brought Japan, kicking and squealing into the modern world!
JB
J Bryant
11 months ago
My question to Mr. Kotkin (in the unlikely event he reads the comments section) is can we manage population decline while maintaining cultural continuity, a decent standard of living, and economic opportunity in the West? Isn’t that Japan’s goal with its resistance to immigration and cultural dilution, and a dependence on off-shoring a huge amount of its manufacturing and any other economic activity that can be off-shored?
EC
Emil Castelli
11 months ago
”Africa could well be, as the Brookings Institution suggests, “our last hope” in the West to forestall demographic and economic decline.”
wow… because we see how well it works in SA? Is Zimbabwe riding a wave of economic success on these growing demographic waves? Is Nigeria’s heading to a billion ensuring they all have wealth and prosperity?
”Joel Kotkin is the Presidential Fellow in Urban Futures at Chapman University”
Postmodernism captured the Western Universities in the 1980’s – that was the West’s suicide pact with its self, now come to fruition.
It’s not just postmodernism or climate concerns. If Western economies could stir themselves to ensure that more of the West’s fat profits flowed to employees in the form of higher wages and a decent standard of living, then the “need” to import labor would abate, surely. Even during this recent inflation, Western industries and businesses have been helping themselves to higher profits exceeding increased costs. No wonder Western youth feel demoralized, or “unengaged,” as Mr Kotkin puts it. Sadly, Western economies don’t consider cultural continuity as part of their mission.
It’s not just postmodernism or climate concerns. If Western economies could stir themselves to ensure that more of the West’s fat profits flowed to employees in the form of higher wages and a decent standard of living, then the “need” to import labor would abate, surely. Even during this recent inflation, Western industries and businesses have been helping themselves to higher profits exceeding increased costs. No wonder Western youth feel demoralized, or “unengaged,” as Mr Kotkin puts it. Sadly, Western economies don’t consider cultural continuity as part of their mission.
Last edited 11 months ago by Helen E
EC
Emil Castelli
11 months ago
”Africa could well be, as the Brookings Institution suggests, “our last hope” in the West to forestall demographic and economic decline.”
wow… because we see how well it works in SA? Is Zimbabwe riding a wave of economic success on these growing demographic waves? Is Nigeria’s heading to a billion ensuring they all have wealth and prosperity?
”Joel Kotkin is the Presidential Fellow in Urban Futures at Chapman University”
Postmodernism captured the Western Universities in the 1980’s – that was the West’s suicide pact with its self, now come to fruition.
JE
james elliott
11 months ago
“Africa could well be, as the Brookings Institution suggests, “our last hope” in the West to forestall demographic and economic decline”
Uhm….. no, thanks.
Africa cannot get it together enough to produce lasting, thriving democracies – and in many cases even to feed itself.
African countries are overwhelmingly populated by African people – who, in thr majority of cases, cannot get it together enough to produce lasting, thriving democracies – and in many cases even to feed themselves.
So, no, replacing the population of Europe with Africans is in fact a terrible, suicidal idea.
He’s an intellectual and will want the West to embrace racial and cultural suicide.
JE
james elliott
11 months ago
“Africa could well be, as the Brookings Institution suggests, “our last hope” in the West to forestall demographic and economic decline”
Uhm….. no, thanks.
Africa cannot get it together enough to produce lasting, thriving democracies – and in many cases even to feed itself.
African countries are overwhelmingly populated by African people – who, in thr majority of cases, cannot get it together enough to produce lasting, thriving democracies – and in many cases even to feed themselves.
So, no, replacing the population of Europe with Africans is in fact a terrible, suicidal idea.
Last edited 11 months ago by james elliott
JE
james elliott
11 months ago
‘”In response, despite crushing labour shortages, many countries — including the Netherlands, France, Denmark, Norway, and Germany itself — have tightened their immigration controls…………The resulting migrant populations of unemployed and underemployed people have created social unrest in Europe’s cities, much as we have seen in America”
I’m sorry but the above makes no sense at all. Is, in fact, quite absurd.
The first sentence suggests that European countries are making a mistake tightening immigration controls – because of crushing labour shortages; the second acknowledges that migrant populations are unemployed and underemployed, and are causing serious social unrest.
Importing the Third World is *not* a solution.
The labour shortages are not because employers are crying out for unskilled, uneducated migrants from sub-Saharan Africa who are frequently unassimilable and will end up on welfare for life.
It is, literally, impossible to believe that any intelligent person could actually believe that the gaps in the job market could be filled by people who lack the job skills, language skills, and cultural compatibility required, and are sometimes functionally illiterate. What jobs can they do?
Can’t find people who want to work as paralegals, accountants, waiters, dentists, bus drivers, plumbers or trainee teachers?
Fear not! We have 100,000 young men, mostly called Ahmed, who haven’t had any formal education past an average age of 12, who think women are domestic servants & that unsupervised young women and boys are fair game for sexual harassment, who don’t speak English and refuse to wear shoes for you!
It is patently absurd, and anyone who has spent time in an English city with any size of population of African immigrants knows this.
The real goal, IMO, is to make the population of every country in the world reflect the global population. So, something like 15% White, 10% Black, 40% east Asian, 15% South Asian, 10% MENA, 5% Native American and mestizo, and 5% other Caucasian.
The real goal, IMO, is to make the population of every country in the world reflect the global population. So, something like 15% White, 10% Black, 40% east Asian, 15% South Asian, 10% MENA, 5% Native American and mestizo, and 5% other Caucasian.
JE
james elliott
11 months ago
‘”In response, despite crushing labour shortages, many countries — including the Netherlands, France, Denmark, Norway, and Germany itself — have tightened their immigration controls…………The resulting migrant populations of unemployed and underemployed people have created social unrest in Europe’s cities, much as we have seen in America”
I’m sorry but the above makes no sense at all. Is, in fact, quite absurd.
The first sentence suggests that European countries are making a mistake tightening immigration controls – because of crushing labour shortages; the second acknowledges that migrant populations are unemployed and underemployed, and are causing serious social unrest.
Importing the Third World is *not* a solution.
The labour shortages are not because employers are crying out for unskilled, uneducated migrants from sub-Saharan Africa who are frequently unassimilable and will end up on welfare for life.
It is, literally, impossible to believe that any intelligent person could actually believe that the gaps in the job market could be filled by people who lack the job skills, language skills, and cultural compatibility required, and are sometimes functionally illiterate. What jobs can they do?
Can’t find people who want to work as paralegals, accountants, waiters, dentists, bus drivers, plumbers or trainee teachers?
Fear not! We have 100,000 young men, mostly called Ahmed, who haven’t had any formal education past an average age of 12, who think women are domestic servants & that unsupervised young women and boys are fair game for sexual harassment, who don’t speak English and refuse to wear shoes for you!
It is patently absurd, and anyone who has spent time in an English city with any size of population of African immigrants knows this.
So what is the real goal of mass immigration?
Last edited 11 months ago by james elliott
Julian Farrows
11 months ago
My take on this is that the generation gap is created by too many years spent at school and college – too many years spent sitting in a classroom environment learning about life from books or a computer screen is a shabby substitute for the real thing.
I couldn’t wait to leave school and waited for as long as possible before going to college. Those years in-between really helped me develop as an adult. I managed to unschool myself and learn more about what I wanted to get out of life.
May of today’s children are trapped behind a screen that fills them with nothing but fear for life, sex, climate, and religion, and teaches them that being liked is more important than being right.
Julian Farrows
11 months ago
My take on this is that the generation gap is created by too many years spent at school and college – too many years spent sitting in a classroom environment learning about life from books or a computer screen is a shabby substitute for the real thing.
I couldn’t wait to leave school and waited for as long as possible before going to college. Those years in-between really helped me develop as an adult. I managed to unschool myself and learn more about what I wanted to get out of life.
May of today’s children are trapped behind a screen that fills them with nothing but fear for life, sex, climate, and religion, and teaches them that being liked is more important than being right.
CW
Caradog Wiliams
11 months ago
In an article last week it was demonstrated that people prefer to have dogs rather than children. In this wonderful future I can see a few positives:
1) All young people who go to university should train to be vets,
2) Cleaning dogs*it from the streets will become an important job, possibly requiring a degree,
3) The police will have to develop a dogsh*t squad,
4) We can divert a lot of resources from the NHS, thereby improving the lives of the poor,
5) Electric vans can deliver food to each house individually so no-one will ever have to leave their house. In this way we can all become vegans, thereby saving the dear old planet.
Can dogs be vegans? Or cats?
CW
Caradog Wiliams
11 months ago
In an article last week it was demonstrated that people prefer to have dogs rather than children. In this wonderful future I can see a few positives:
1) All young people who go to university should train to be vets,
2) Cleaning dogs*it from the streets will become an important job, possibly requiring a degree,
3) The police will have to develop a dogsh*t squad,
4) We can divert a lot of resources from the NHS, thereby improving the lives of the poor,
5) Electric vans can deliver food to each house individually so no-one will ever have to leave their house. In this way we can all become vegans, thereby saving the dear old planet.
Can dogs be vegans? Or cats?
BV
Brian Villanueva
11 months ago
Want to see the future? Read Camp of the Saints (if you can find a copy). It’s not hard to see what happens when an elderly and theologically exhausted West meets a young, motivated, industrious, and angry South.
He’s right though. Religious people tend to be more optimistic about the future, produce more children, and are generally more happy-go-lucky. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that those who worry incessantly about climate change or what gender they are are atheist.
Obviously you don’t know the book. Camp of the Saints isn’t a religious book at all. Far from it. It’s one of the most racist and vile books I’ve ever read, but its diagnosis is correct despite that.
If you prefer something more theological though, Michael Houllebeq’s Submission makes the same point.
He’s right though. Religious people tend to be more optimistic about the future, produce more children, and are generally more happy-go-lucky. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that those who worry incessantly about climate change or what gender they are are atheist.
Obviously you don’t know the book. Camp of the Saints isn’t a religious book at all. Far from it. It’s one of the most racist and vile books I’ve ever read, but its diagnosis is correct despite that.
If you prefer something more theological though, Michael Houllebeq’s Submission makes the same point.
Oh for Christ’s sake (if you’ll pardon the pun) don’t bring theology into it.
BV
Brian Villanueva
11 months ago
Want to see the future? Read Camp of the Saints (if you can find a copy). It’s not hard to see what happens when an elderly and theologically exhausted West meets a young, motivated, industrious, and angry South.
SI
Samir Iker
10 months ago
“Bernie Sanders amassed more votes from people under 30 than Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton combined.”
Probably got more to do with young people being fed a constant dose of Marxism and the wonders of socialism.
They will figure out if and when they do end up in a Marxist society. Will be a tad late for them, though.
SI
Samir Iker
10 months ago
“Bernie Sanders amassed more votes from people under 30 than Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton combined.”
Probably got more to do with young people being fed a constant dose of Marxism and the wonders of socialism.
They will figure out if and when they do end up in a Marxist society. Will be a tad late for them, though.
CU
Cate Terwilliger
11 months ago
I’m not sure what the writer is suggesting here — that we keep growing human population at historical levels to perpetuate the old economic growth mindset, continue driving other species to extinction and with them, the planet? It seems to me that a shrinking global human population and economies that shrink correspondingly, consuming less and generating less waste, are good things in terms of sustainability for us, other species and the Earth. That will inevitably come with some suffering as we recalibrate, including starvation and disease in countries whose populations outstrip the resources needed to sustain them. (We remain mammals, after all, and subject to Nature’s methods of restoring equilibrium.) I am not as upset about this as the alternative of continuing the endless economic growth mindset and the unthinking procreation (Consumers! We need more consumers!) that got us here.
How does a migrant population of unemployed and underemployed people, despite crushing labour shortages, who are creating social unrest * result from * tightened immigration controls? Surely it is the consequence of failing to tighten controls in the way promised.
The assumption that by importing Africans we will create new Europeans is false: we seem instead to be creating a new Africa.
They will just just succeed in turning this country into the same S***hole that they came from
East Africans in the US are all stars. They do well academically. If immigrants have the structure/stable government, they flourish and outperform the stagnant base population. As an immigrant in the US, I’ve noticed most engineering grad students in my cohort were immigrants. Young white people in the US don’t want to work very hard. They are more focused on gender ideology and “sticking it to the man”. They find words like “rich” and “capitalism” to be vile. Just be glad be people are migrating, they are many country’s only hope.
The West needs to die out. They are intellectually exhausted, cynical, amoral and it needs to collapse to some Bronze Age culture.
Europe will turn into Africa and then they will have a race war.
The West needs to die out. They are intellectually exhausted, cynical, amoral and it needs to collapse to some Bronze Age culture.
Europe will turn into Africa and then they will have a race war.
As the saying goes, “Import third world, get third world”. A bus journey in any of our large cities in the UK will demonstrate how true that is.
East Africans in the US are all stars. They do well academically. If immigrants have the structure/stable government, they flourish and outperform the stagnant base population. As an immigrant in the US, I’ve noticed most engineering grad students in my cohort were immigrants. Young white people in the US don’t want to work very hard. They are more focused on gender ideology and “sticking it to the man”. They find words like “rich” and “capitalism” to be vile. Just be glad be people are migrating, they are many country’s only hope.
As the saying goes, “Import third world, get third world”. A bus journey in any of our large cities in the UK will demonstrate how true that is.
They will just just succeed in turning this country into the same S***hole that they came from
How does a migrant population of unemployed and underemployed people, despite crushing labour shortages, who are creating social unrest * result from * tightened immigration controls? Surely it is the consequence of failing to tighten controls in the way promised.
The assumption that by importing Africans we will create new Europeans is false: we seem instead to be creating a new Africa.
My question to Mr. Kotkin (in the unlikely event he reads the comments section) is can we manage population decline while maintaining cultural continuity, a decent standard of living, and economic opportunity in the West? Isn’t that Japan’s goal with its resistance to immigration and cultural dilution, and a dependence on off-shoring a huge amount of its manufacturing and any other economic activity that can be off-shored?
Who cleans the streets in Japan?
The local authorities, and as far as I can tell (I’ve lived here nearly thirty years) they use Japanese employees. You’ll find foreign students manning the night shift in supermarkets and convenience stores, and quite a few foreigners in manufacturing jobs. The students will go home when their courses finish, their visas run out, or they will be employable enough to get a work visa. The foreign worker visas will come to an end when their employment does. After ten or so years of paying tax and generally showing that you’re capable of being a worthwhile citizen you can get permanent residency.
This foreigner fully approves, and is happy that the Japanese require incomers to meet certain standards. That way the whole country can continue to do so.
In the last ten years I have visited Japan twice – but never Tokyo. When I landed I travelled by bus for four hours to Hitachi City, passing through many villages and towns. The streets were so clean that it was a shock to the system. This shows up the UK very badly.
Many newspapers wrote stories about Japanese fans during the World Cup – taking away all of their detritus from the stadiums. This is a way of life in Japan and immigrants could harm this sense of pride.
What is the solution in the UK when we have no pride ourselves? Immigration, I think. We can perhaps rely on new people who do have more pride. So we have the opposite situation to Japan.
How can we stop theft and bad behaviour in the UK? Everybody wants the criminals to win. Sharia Law is the only hope.
There are plenty of people in the UK who have pride in the places where they live and look after it. Only two generations ago this was almost universal. There’s absolutely no reason we cannot do this. We’ve just been setting and tolerating low standards for too long.
You seem rather confused. You clearly believe that immigration is bad for Japan, but would save Britain.
We have a perfectly good legal system – and one that is far superior to Sharia Law. Once again, we have not been applying it rigorously.
Set and accept low standards – get poor results.
There are plenty of people in the UK who have pride in the places where they live and look after it. Only two generations ago this was almost universal. There’s absolutely no reason we cannot do this. We’ve just been setting and tolerating low standards for too long.
You seem rather confused. You clearly believe that immigration is bad for Japan, but would save Britain.
We have a perfectly good legal system – and one that is far superior to Sharia Law. Once again, we have not been applying it rigorously.
Set and accept low standards – get poor results.
That is why Japan is still Japan – and England is literally unrecognizable when compared to the country it was 50 or 60 years ago.
I would be interested to know your overall experience as a longtime immigrant in Japan. Do they accept you or are you always reminded you’re an outsider? What about the workplace–is there subtle (or not so subtle) discrimination?
Almost certainly the latter. I’ve seen Korea – very little immigration and while there are a few Indians working there, they usually aren’t on the direct payroll and won’t be managers. I don’t believe you’re actually prevented from doing anything or treated worse (customer service is universally excellent), but you probably won’t get the same career opportunities.
But what’s the problem with “discrimination” here ? It’s their country and their rules. You either respect that or you don’t. I ended up having a lot of respect for the Koreans. We wouldn’t want to live the way they do, but they’ve been hugely successful and deserve to be.
Almost certainly the latter. I’ve seen Korea – very little immigration and while there are a few Indians working there, they usually aren’t on the direct payroll and won’t be managers. I don’t believe you’re actually prevented from doing anything or treated worse (customer service is universally excellent), but you probably won’t get the same career opportunities.
But what’s the problem with “discrimination” here ? It’s their country and their rules. You either respect that or you don’t. I ended up having a lot of respect for the Koreans. We wouldn’t want to live the way they do, but they’ve been hugely successful and deserve to be.
In the last ten years I have visited Japan twice – but never Tokyo. When I landed I travelled by bus for four hours to Hitachi City, passing through many villages and towns. The streets were so clean that it was a shock to the system. This shows up the UK very badly.
Many newspapers wrote stories about Japanese fans during the World Cup – taking away all of their detritus from the stadiums. This is a way of life in Japan and immigrants could harm this sense of pride.
What is the solution in the UK when we have no pride ourselves? Immigration, I think. We can perhaps rely on new people who do have more pride. So we have the opposite situation to Japan.
How can we stop theft and bad behaviour in the UK? Everybody wants the criminals to win. Sharia Law is the only hope.
That is why Japan is still Japan – and England is literally unrecognizable when compared to the country it was 50 or 60 years ago.
I would be interested to know your overall experience as a longtime immigrant in Japan. Do they accept you or are you always reminded you’re an outsider? What about the workplace–is there subtle (or not so subtle) discrimination?
A job that can be done by robots. Japan has some of the most advanced robotics in the world. That’s not by coincidence.
The local authorities, and as far as I can tell (I’ve lived here nearly thirty years) they use Japanese employees. You’ll find foreign students manning the night shift in supermarkets and convenience stores, and quite a few foreigners in manufacturing jobs. The students will go home when their courses finish, their visas run out, or they will be employable enough to get a work visa. The foreign worker visas will come to an end when their employment does. After ten or so years of paying tax and generally showing that you’re capable of being a worthwhile citizen you can get permanent residency.
This foreigner fully approves, and is happy that the Japanese require incomers to meet certain standards. That way the whole country can continue to do so.
A job that can be done by robots. Japan has some of the most advanced robotics in the world. That’s not by coincidence.
The UK BAME population stands at around 12 million or 19%, thus it’s all over for us.
Some years ago now someone, I forget who, made this rather apposite comment:- “As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see ‘the River Tiber foaming with much blood’.”
There is a bitter irony to all this as it was the UK that brought Japan, kicking and squealing into the modern world!
Yes, that was Enoch Powell’s famous (infamous?) “rivers of blood” speech and it ended his political career (just as a similar speech would end a political career today). But he was prescient.
One might say a modern day Cassandra.
If he had just stuck to the original Latin, the metaphor would have been clear and he would have got away with it.
Precisely!
Precisely!
It didn’t actually end his political career. Just his prospect of senior office. Which he probably wasn’t that well suited to. Certainly one of Tony Benn’s “signposts” rather than “weathervanes”.
He was still highly influential in the 1970 and 1974 elections. Had an ability to connect with ordinary people in marginal constituencies like the West Midlands perhaps not really seen again until Boris Johnson’s Red Wall breakthrough.
He laid much of the groundwork for free market economics and privatisation.
He was still a regular on Radio 4 for at least a decade after this speech. Still listened to in silence in the Commons during the Falklands debate in 1982. They hadn’t invented cancellation in those – frankly better – days those.
Quite mistaken I think to believe that his influence ended on 20th April 1968.
One might say a modern day Cassandra.
If he had just stuck to the original Latin, the metaphor would have been clear and he would have got away with it.
It didn’t actually end his political career. Just his prospect of senior office. Which he probably wasn’t that well suited to. Certainly one of Tony Benn’s “signposts” rather than “weathervanes”.
He was still highly influential in the 1970 and 1974 elections. Had an ability to connect with ordinary people in marginal constituencies like the West Midlands perhaps not really seen again until Boris Johnson’s Red Wall breakthrough.
He laid much of the groundwork for free market economics and privatisation.
He was still a regular on Radio 4 for at least a decade after this speech. Still listened to in silence in the Commons during the Falklands debate in 1982. They hadn’t invented cancellation in those – frankly better – days those.
Quite mistaken I think to believe that his influence ended on 20th April 1968.
Yes, that was Enoch Powell’s famous (infamous?) “rivers of blood” speech and it ended his political career (just as a similar speech would end a political career today). But he was prescient.
Who cleans the streets in Japan?
The UK BAME population stands at around 12 million or 19%, thus it’s all over for us.
Some years ago now someone, I forget who, made this rather apposite comment:- “As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see ‘the River Tiber foaming with much blood’.”
There is a bitter irony to all this as it was the UK that brought Japan, kicking and squealing into the modern world!
My question to Mr. Kotkin (in the unlikely event he reads the comments section) is can we manage population decline while maintaining cultural continuity, a decent standard of living, and economic opportunity in the West? Isn’t that Japan’s goal with its resistance to immigration and cultural dilution, and a dependence on off-shoring a huge amount of its manufacturing and any other economic activity that can be off-shored?
”Africa could well be, as the Brookings Institution suggests, “our last hope” in the West to forestall demographic and economic decline.”
wow… because we see how well it works in SA? Is Zimbabwe riding a wave of economic success on these growing demographic waves? Is Nigeria’s heading to a billion ensuring they all have wealth and prosperity?
”Joel Kotkin is the Presidential Fellow in Urban Futures at Chapman University”
Postmodernism captured the Western Universities in the 1980’s – that was the West’s suicide pact with its self, now come to fruition.
It’s not just postmodernism or climate concerns. If Western economies could stir themselves to ensure that more of the West’s fat profits flowed to employees in the form of higher wages and a decent standard of living, then the “need” to import labor would abate, surely. Even during this recent inflation, Western industries and businesses have been helping themselves to higher profits exceeding increased costs. No wonder Western youth feel demoralized, or “unengaged,” as Mr Kotkin puts it. Sadly, Western economies don’t consider cultural continuity as part of their mission.
It’s not just postmodernism or climate concerns. If Western economies could stir themselves to ensure that more of the West’s fat profits flowed to employees in the form of higher wages and a decent standard of living, then the “need” to import labor would abate, surely. Even during this recent inflation, Western industries and businesses have been helping themselves to higher profits exceeding increased costs. No wonder Western youth feel demoralized, or “unengaged,” as Mr Kotkin puts it. Sadly, Western economies don’t consider cultural continuity as part of their mission.
”Africa could well be, as the Brookings Institution suggests, “our last hope” in the West to forestall demographic and economic decline.”
wow… because we see how well it works in SA? Is Zimbabwe riding a wave of economic success on these growing demographic waves? Is Nigeria’s heading to a billion ensuring they all have wealth and prosperity?
”Joel Kotkin is the Presidential Fellow in Urban Futures at Chapman University”
Postmodernism captured the Western Universities in the 1980’s – that was the West’s suicide pact with its self, now come to fruition.
“Africa could well be, as the Brookings Institution suggests, “our last hope” in the West to forestall demographic and economic decline”
Uhm….. no, thanks.
Africa cannot get it together enough to produce lasting, thriving democracies – and in many cases even to feed itself.
African countries are overwhelmingly populated by African people – who, in thr majority of cases, cannot get it together enough to produce lasting, thriving democracies – and in many cases even to feed themselves.
So, no, replacing the population of Europe with Africans is in fact a terrible, suicidal idea.
He’s an intellectual and will want the West to embrace racial and cultural suicide.
He’s an intellectual and will want the West to embrace racial and cultural suicide.
“Africa could well be, as the Brookings Institution suggests, “our last hope” in the West to forestall demographic and economic decline”
Uhm….. no, thanks.
Africa cannot get it together enough to produce lasting, thriving democracies – and in many cases even to feed itself.
African countries are overwhelmingly populated by African people – who, in thr majority of cases, cannot get it together enough to produce lasting, thriving democracies – and in many cases even to feed themselves.
So, no, replacing the population of Europe with Africans is in fact a terrible, suicidal idea.
‘”In response, despite crushing labour shortages, many countries — including the Netherlands, France, Denmark, Norway, and Germany itself — have tightened their immigration controls…………The resulting migrant populations of unemployed and underemployed people have created social unrest in Europe’s cities, much as we have seen in America”
I’m sorry but the above makes no sense at all. Is, in fact, quite absurd.
The first sentence suggests that European countries are making a mistake tightening immigration controls – because of crushing labour shortages; the second acknowledges that migrant populations are unemployed and underemployed, and are causing serious social unrest.
Importing the Third World is *not* a solution.
The labour shortages are not because employers are crying out for unskilled, uneducated migrants from sub-Saharan Africa who are frequently unassimilable and will end up on welfare for life.
It is, literally, impossible to believe that any intelligent person could actually believe that the gaps in the job market could be filled by people who lack the job skills, language skills, and cultural compatibility required, and are sometimes functionally illiterate. What jobs can they do?
Can’t find people who want to work as paralegals, accountants, waiters, dentists, bus drivers, plumbers or trainee teachers?
Fear not! We have 100,000 young men, mostly called Ahmed, who haven’t had any formal education past an average age of 12, who think women are domestic servants & that unsupervised young women and boys are fair game for sexual harassment, who don’t speak English and refuse to wear shoes for you!
It is patently absurd, and anyone who has spent time in an English city with any size of population of African immigrants knows this.
So what is the real goal of mass immigration?
The real goal, IMO, is to make the population of every country in the world reflect the global population. So, something like 15% White, 10% Black, 40% east Asian, 15% South Asian, 10% MENA, 5% Native American and mestizo, and 5% other Caucasian.
The real goal, IMO, is to make the population of every country in the world reflect the global population. So, something like 15% White, 10% Black, 40% east Asian, 15% South Asian, 10% MENA, 5% Native American and mestizo, and 5% other Caucasian.
‘”In response, despite crushing labour shortages, many countries — including the Netherlands, France, Denmark, Norway, and Germany itself — have tightened their immigration controls…………The resulting migrant populations of unemployed and underemployed people have created social unrest in Europe’s cities, much as we have seen in America”
I’m sorry but the above makes no sense at all. Is, in fact, quite absurd.
The first sentence suggests that European countries are making a mistake tightening immigration controls – because of crushing labour shortages; the second acknowledges that migrant populations are unemployed and underemployed, and are causing serious social unrest.
Importing the Third World is *not* a solution.
The labour shortages are not because employers are crying out for unskilled, uneducated migrants from sub-Saharan Africa who are frequently unassimilable and will end up on welfare for life.
It is, literally, impossible to believe that any intelligent person could actually believe that the gaps in the job market could be filled by people who lack the job skills, language skills, and cultural compatibility required, and are sometimes functionally illiterate. What jobs can they do?
Can’t find people who want to work as paralegals, accountants, waiters, dentists, bus drivers, plumbers or trainee teachers?
Fear not! We have 100,000 young men, mostly called Ahmed, who haven’t had any formal education past an average age of 12, who think women are domestic servants & that unsupervised young women and boys are fair game for sexual harassment, who don’t speak English and refuse to wear shoes for you!
It is patently absurd, and anyone who has spent time in an English city with any size of population of African immigrants knows this.
So what is the real goal of mass immigration?
My take on this is that the generation gap is created by too many years spent at school and college – too many years spent sitting in a classroom environment learning about life from books or a computer screen is a shabby substitute for the real thing.
I couldn’t wait to leave school and waited for as long as possible before going to college. Those years in-between really helped me develop as an adult. I managed to unschool myself and learn more about what I wanted to get out of life.
May of today’s children are trapped behind a screen that fills them with nothing but fear for life, sex, climate, and religion, and teaches them that being liked is more important than being right.
My take on this is that the generation gap is created by too many years spent at school and college – too many years spent sitting in a classroom environment learning about life from books or a computer screen is a shabby substitute for the real thing.
I couldn’t wait to leave school and waited for as long as possible before going to college. Those years in-between really helped me develop as an adult. I managed to unschool myself and learn more about what I wanted to get out of life.
May of today’s children are trapped behind a screen that fills them with nothing but fear for life, sex, climate, and religion, and teaches them that being liked is more important than being right.
In an article last week it was demonstrated that people prefer to have dogs rather than children. In this wonderful future I can see a few positives:
1) All young people who go to university should train to be vets,
2) Cleaning dogs*it from the streets will become an important job, possibly requiring a degree,
3) The police will have to develop a dogsh*t squad,
4) We can divert a lot of resources from the NHS, thereby improving the lives of the poor,
5) Electric vans can deliver food to each house individually so no-one will ever have to leave their house. In this way we can all become vegans, thereby saving the dear old planet.
Can dogs be vegans? Or cats?
In an article last week it was demonstrated that people prefer to have dogs rather than children. In this wonderful future I can see a few positives:
1) All young people who go to university should train to be vets,
2) Cleaning dogs*it from the streets will become an important job, possibly requiring a degree,
3) The police will have to develop a dogsh*t squad,
4) We can divert a lot of resources from the NHS, thereby improving the lives of the poor,
5) Electric vans can deliver food to each house individually so no-one will ever have to leave their house. In this way we can all become vegans, thereby saving the dear old planet.
Can dogs be vegans? Or cats?
Want to see the future? Read Camp of the Saints (if you can find a copy). It’s not hard to see what happens when an elderly and theologically exhausted West meets a young, motivated, industrious, and angry South.
Oh for Christ’s sake (if you’ll pardon the pun) don’t bring theology into it.
He’s right though. Religious people tend to be more optimistic about the future, produce more children, and are generally more happy-go-lucky. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that those who worry incessantly about climate change or what gender they are are atheist.
Obviously you don’t know the book. Camp of the Saints isn’t a religious book at all. Far from it. It’s one of the most racist and vile books I’ve ever read, but its diagnosis is correct despite that.
If you prefer something more theological though, Michael Houllebeq’s Submission makes the same point.
He’s right though. Religious people tend to be more optimistic about the future, produce more children, and are generally more happy-go-lucky. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that those who worry incessantly about climate change or what gender they are are atheist.
Obviously you don’t know the book. Camp of the Saints isn’t a religious book at all. Far from it. It’s one of the most racist and vile books I’ve ever read, but its diagnosis is correct despite that.
If you prefer something more theological though, Michael Houllebeq’s Submission makes the same point.
Oh for Christ’s sake (if you’ll pardon the pun) don’t bring theology into it.
Want to see the future? Read Camp of the Saints (if you can find a copy). It’s not hard to see what happens when an elderly and theologically exhausted West meets a young, motivated, industrious, and angry South.
“Bernie Sanders amassed more votes from people under 30 than Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton combined.”
Probably got more to do with young people being fed a constant dose of Marxism and the wonders of socialism.
They will figure out if and when they do end up in a Marxist society. Will be a tad late for them, though.
“Bernie Sanders amassed more votes from people under 30 than Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton combined.”
Probably got more to do with young people being fed a constant dose of Marxism and the wonders of socialism.
They will figure out if and when they do end up in a Marxist society. Will be a tad late for them, though.
I’m not sure what the writer is suggesting here — that we keep growing human population at historical levels to perpetuate the old economic growth mindset, continue driving other species to extinction and with them, the planet? It seems to me that a shrinking global human population and economies that shrink correspondingly, consuming less and generating less waste, are good things in terms of sustainability for us, other species and the Earth. That will inevitably come with some suffering as we recalibrate, including starvation and disease in countries whose populations outstrip the resources needed to sustain them. (We remain mammals, after all, and subject to Nature’s methods of restoring equilibrium.) I am not as upset about this as the alternative of continuing the endless economic growth mindset and the unthinking procreation (Consumers! We need more consumers!) that got us here.
Well said.