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The BBC’s phoney war on disinformation A bit of self-awareness wouldn't go amiss

Nobody forms their beliefs in a social vacuum (Luis Ascui/Getty Images)

Nobody forms their beliefs in a social vacuum (Luis Ascui/Getty Images)


March 24, 2023   6 mins

Ever felt your ears burning? I get as much flak online as the next believer in the existence of human biology, but recently I’ve noticed it ramping up somewhat. For the purposes of researching this column, I gingerly dipped my toe into the search function on Twitter, and can report that in the last few weeks, I’ve been described as a “brain tumour” that “grew arms and legs”, a “creepy bigoted weirdo”, someone who “gets their rocks off to torturing people”, and “a cis woman cosplaying being a lesbian and a man”. Meanwhile, a trans celeb with whom I once debated civilly on Radio 4 announced to 67K followers that I’m a “mess” who should “just transition and get it over with”.

With fans like these, you might assume I would be supportive of the case currently being made by the BBC’s Disinformation and Social Media Correspondent for stricter regulation of disinformation and hate speech. In an interview and an accompanying feature published this week, Marianna Spring reiterates a narrative about Elon Musk’s takeover of Twitter that she first aired on Panorama a few weeks back. According to Spring, online disinformation and hate speech is getting worse, and it’s the responsibility of social media platforms to regulate it more heavily.

Like me, Spring receives a lot of online misrepresentation and criticism in her professional role. Indeed, she frequently uses such experiences as a superficially compelling peg for many of her stories. Despite our similarities, though, I remain unconvinced by her case for strong regulation. More than that: through observing her output, I’ve become convinced that the BBC should not have a specialist “Disinformation Correspondent” at all.

In this week’s interview, Spring described her job for the BBC as “interrogating how mistruths or trolling or abuse online can affect real people, and then to investigate and hold to account the social media companies, policy makers, law enforcement…”. At face value, this may seem like a fairly standard quest for a journalist, albeit a noble one — a bit like investigating fraudsters or corrupt politicians, in order to bring their misdeeds and lies into the light.

But there’s at least one big difference. A journalist investigating fraud, but who accidentally misidentifies either what fraud is or the people committing it, doesn’t thereby become guilty of the very thing she is investigating. In contrast, a Disinformation Correspondent who misidentifies disinformation, either positively or negatively, runs the risk of disseminating disinformation herself — and is arguably all the more harmful because of the status implied by her position.

Perhaps it could be rejoindered that disinformation is not the same as misinformation. Whereas misinformation consists in the unwitting dissemination of false statements believed to be true at the time, disinformation is the knowing introduction of false statements with the explicit intention to deceive people. In other words, with disinformation, there is an intent to deceive. That’s a reasonable distinction to make as far as it goes; the problem is that it’s utterly useless in helping us analyse the growing problem with conspiratorial and magical thinking in the world. It also has no relevance to most of the things reported on by Spring.

The capacity of human beings to cling to incredible beliefs in a self-serving way, while being blind to blatantly contrary evidence, is well-established. And given this capacity, it’s very hard to know whether conspiratorial thinking has been propagated in the cynical knowledge of its falsehood. For instance, those in charge of Russian botfarms churning out what liberals call “pro-Putin propaganda” probably half-believe their own falsehoods. The originator of the New World Order conspiracy theory almost certainly believed his. Even bonkers theories like the lizard people one were probably started by the mad rather than the bad. Ironically, the persistent belief that there is a lot of disinformation in the world, in the sense of deliberately deceptive lies, is itself a kind of conspiracy theory. For some people, it seems much easier to believe in the organised and deliberate deception of others than in the chaos of accidental human fallibility.

In practice, then, any conception of disinformation as positively requiring intentional deception is going to be of marginal use to society at most. And it certainly seems unlikely that the BBC would ever have put someone in a full-time role to investigate disinformation, had this been the background idea. It’s far too niche.

In fact, what Spring tends to investigate at least some of the time is disinformation in a broader and potentially more useful sense, meaning something like: widespread false or misleading beliefs, seemingly attractive to people for reasons that have little to do with the amount of good evidence available for them, and which cause significant social dysfunction. Whatever the reason for these beliefs, a neutral approach to evidence has taken a back seat to some other goal, and the process of producing them is no longer what epistemologists call “truth-tracking”. In this broader sense, spreading or believing disinformation is not just about misinterpreting evidence, but rather about ignoring certain inconvenient bits of evidence to fit with prior political, social, or emotional goals.

This is perhaps a more useful conception of disinformation, though admittedly not as snappy. The problem for Spring now is that it seems to apply to some of her own output too. This is understandable, given that, to paraphrase the King James Bible, it’s always easier to notice the motes in other people’s eyes rather than the beams in your own. Nearly everyone is subject to bias, like I said. But given Spring’s job title and growing influence, including a recent expert appearance at a Parliamentary Committee about online speech regulation, I still think it’s a problem.

Take the Panorama documentary. The narrative offered by Spring and the team around her was almost parodically absent of nuance, offering no attempted counterpoint to the extremely simple and obviously partisan fairy-tale it was thrusting upon the viewer. This story goes: a bad and foolish man took over Twitter (Spring barely suppresses her eyerolling as she talks about him); he laid off a lot of people responsible for dealing with “hate speech”; hate speech increased exponentially; regulators therefore need to do more to protect the ordinary people that suffer.

Basic critical questions one might have asked about this narrative were missing in action. The most obvious of these is what counts as hate speech. Throughout her work, Spring’s habitual examples (speech by misogynists, rape apologists, anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers) tend to suggest she thinks hate speech is angry, threatening, and/or insulting speech produced by people with the Wrong Politics, causing anxiety and distress in more innocent people who don’t share their persecutors’ dodgy views. I’d be fascinated to know whether Spring assumes that the level of insult and aggression flung by online anti-vaxxers towards epidemiologists, for instance, becomes morally neutralised when directed instead towards radical feminists, Zionists, Tory politicians, or any other folk devils of the contemporary progressive mindset.

A second obvious question unexplored by Spring’s documentary is what negative consequences might follow when you devolve responsibility for what counts as hate speech to people working in Silicon Valley. For instance, gender-critical and radical feminists have been at the sharp end of regulatory decisions by Twitter for years now — many of them banned or censored for talking about the social importance of biological sex, or for saying it cannot be changed.

The crossover between tech bros and people of a transactivist or transhumanist persuasion is high. But in her work, Spring seems uncurious about any potential for political bias or self-interest in their decision-making — quite possibly because, like many others, her compass for what counts as hate speech has been significantly affected by exposure to the values of people working in Silicon Valley. Again, this is hardly a crime. Nobody forms their beliefs in a social vacuum. But as a Disinformation Correspondent, it might be good to have self-awareness about it.

When it comes to examples of disinformation, meanwhile, Spring has a tendency to roll relatively reasonable cases of political wrongthink together with madly conspiratorial ravings, suggesting that she doesn’t really differentiate between them. If you start off as an anti-vaxxer or lockdown sceptic, she seems to imply, you might easily end up a climate-change denier, or even a believer in a New World order. When talking about QAnon supporters, she clearly feels it’s important to throw in that they are “pro-Trump” as well — as if being a member of QAnon wasn’t quite bad enough. Such clues to what Spring really thinks of them must be quite infuriating to the thousands of anti-vaxxers and Trump supporters who hold those positions for relatively non-conspiratorial reasons. And then there’s Spring’s tendency to turn stories about conspiracy theorists into suspiciously neat cautionary tales propping up preferred social values — such as in her documentary series about a conspiracy theorist called Gary, who didn’t believe in Covid until it killed him, quite conveniently for the triumphalist narrative purposes of many at the time. It’s almost enough to make you believe in the existence of a repressive liberal media elite.

So what should journalism do with the growing phenomenon of disinformation, if not this? In the old days, of course, we used to have lots of disinformation specialists. We called them investigative journalists. They covered stories in some depth, gave voice to a range of counterpoints, and tried to ensure that their personal views weren’t in the driving seat, even if they sometimes failed in the attempt. By their general example, they encouraged readers and viewers to trust them, or at least, not to virulently distrust them — not because they had the “right” political values, but because they had the right journalistic ones.

These days, though, slowburn investigative journalism is often too expensive, and doesn’t get the same clicks as a hot take. So instead, the idea of disinformation gets thematised as if it were a special kind of moral vice only committed by ill-intentioned or delusional others, to be rooted out and exposed by the intrepid journalist-activist on the side of the good. But good and evil are not so straightforward. In the long run, I suspect this vaccine may turn out to cause more epistemic illness than it prevents.


Kathleen Stock is an UnHerd columnist and a co-director of The Lesbian Project.
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Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago

I saw the Panorama documentary. It was a hit piece on Elon Musk. Apparently Twitter was heaven on earth until he bought it.

Gerrard Stamp
Gerrard Stamp
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

‘For some people, it seems much easier to believe in the organised and deliberate deception of others than in the chaos of accidental human fallibility’.
£160M on advertising a harmless – possibly not even airborne – virus is not an act of accidental human fallibility. The landed gentry – from aristocrats to barons – wishing to hold onto their wealth is not a conspiracy theory. The same aristocracy, later to include bankers, world leaders and technocrats, joining forces to maintain that wealth is not a conspiracy theory. The ‘conspiracy’ is what these people do to hold onto their wealth, a wealth considerably increased by wars, pandemics and climate initiatives. The so-called ‘chaos of accidental human fallibility’ is the layer of useful idiots such as Farrar, Hancock, Tedros, Lagarde, von der Leyen et al who are selected based on their ‘qualities’ of narcissism and malleability.
There are no conspiracy theories. Only conspiracies.
(Not a response to Julian, but to Kathleen Stock)

Hilary Easton
Hilary Easton
1 year ago
Reply to  Gerrard Stamp

I agree with everything you say except the last sentence (outside of brackets): there are conspiracies but there are also conspiracy theories.

Alan Hawkes
Alan Hawkes
1 year ago
Reply to  Gerrard Stamp

People wishing to hold on to their wealth is not a conspiracy theory: it’s a basic fact of life and perfectly normal. St Francis of Assisi was a bit of an outlier.

Hilary Easton
Hilary Easton
1 year ago
Reply to  Gerrard Stamp

I agree with everything you say except the last sentence (outside of brackets): there are conspiracies but there are also conspiracy theories.

Alan Hawkes
Alan Hawkes
1 year ago
Reply to  Gerrard Stamp

People wishing to hold on to their wealth is not a conspiracy theory: it’s a basic fact of life and perfectly normal. St Francis of Assisi was a bit of an outlier.

John Sullivan
John Sullivan
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Stock misses the point spectacularly.
Spring is a neo-Marxist Woke lunatic with a visceral loathing of anyone not in that insane little club, working for a publicly funded organisation completely infested with similar Long March activists who utterly despise their own license payers.
https://twitter.com/search?q=%22far%20right%22%20%22far-right%22%20from%3Amariannaspring&src=typed_query
https://twitter.com/search?q=%22far%20left%22%20%22far-left%22%20from%3Amariannaspring&src=typed_query
Since she “gingerly dipped her toe into the search function on Twitter”, Stock could have tried the enquiries above – which would have revealed the simple truth that Spring is interested only in fomenting hatred of the imaginary “far-right” bogeyman of her deranged imaginings.
The main source of hate speech is Spring herself – from the safety of her BBC perch, she trolls the majority of the public and then labels any response which calls out her disingenuous drivel as misogynistic, racist, hateful or whatever other meaningless slur she can spout.
As for Twitter being heaven on earth until Musk bought it, genuine hate speech has of course been rife on the platform for a very long time – the great majority of it from far-left extremists in Spring’s own image. A small sample from last August (replace the asterisk with a “c” if you have the stomach:
https://twitter.com/search?q=%22tory%20*unt%22%20since%3A2022-08-01%20until%3A2022-08-31&src=typed_query&f=top
Marianna Spring is the absolute dregs of humanity.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Sullivan
Gerrard Stamp
Gerrard Stamp
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

‘For some people, it seems much easier to believe in the organised and deliberate deception of others than in the chaos of accidental human fallibility’.
£160M on advertising a harmless – possibly not even airborne – virus is not an act of accidental human fallibility. The landed gentry – from aristocrats to barons – wishing to hold onto their wealth is not a conspiracy theory. The same aristocracy, later to include bankers, world leaders and technocrats, joining forces to maintain that wealth is not a conspiracy theory. The ‘conspiracy’ is what these people do to hold onto their wealth, a wealth considerably increased by wars, pandemics and climate initiatives. The so-called ‘chaos of accidental human fallibility’ is the layer of useful idiots such as Farrar, Hancock, Tedros, Lagarde, von der Leyen et al who are selected based on their ‘qualities’ of narcissism and malleability.
There are no conspiracy theories. Only conspiracies.
(Not a response to Julian, but to Kathleen Stock)

John Sullivan
John Sullivan
1 year ago
Reply to  Julian Farrows

Stock misses the point spectacularly.
Spring is a neo-Marxist Woke lunatic with a visceral loathing of anyone not in that insane little club, working for a publicly funded organisation completely infested with similar Long March activists who utterly despise their own license payers.
https://twitter.com/search?q=%22far%20right%22%20%22far-right%22%20from%3Amariannaspring&src=typed_query
https://twitter.com/search?q=%22far%20left%22%20%22far-left%22%20from%3Amariannaspring&src=typed_query
Since she “gingerly dipped her toe into the search function on Twitter”, Stock could have tried the enquiries above – which would have revealed the simple truth that Spring is interested only in fomenting hatred of the imaginary “far-right” bogeyman of her deranged imaginings.
The main source of hate speech is Spring herself – from the safety of her BBC perch, she trolls the majority of the public and then labels any response which calls out her disingenuous drivel as misogynistic, racist, hateful or whatever other meaningless slur she can spout.
As for Twitter being heaven on earth until Musk bought it, genuine hate speech has of course been rife on the platform for a very long time – the great majority of it from far-left extremists in Spring’s own image. A small sample from last August (replace the asterisk with a “c” if you have the stomach:
https://twitter.com/search?q=%22tory%20*unt%22%20since%3A2022-08-01%20until%3A2022-08-31&src=typed_query&f=top
Marianna Spring is the absolute dregs of humanity.

Last edited 1 year ago by John Sullivan
Julian Farrows
Julian Farrows
1 year ago

I saw the Panorama documentary. It was a hit piece on Elon Musk. Apparently Twitter was heaven on earth until he bought it.

Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
1 year ago

The purpose of freedom of speech and the 1st amendment of the US constitution is to ensure that there is free interchange of information such that everything is subject to the market place of ideas. When people these days, especially elites and elite institutions, talk about misinformation, disinformation or even conspiracy theories, all they are really saying is that the information they are calling out is not part of the elite and governmental consensus narrative. But unfortunately for these people, especially over the last 3 years with Covid (and the same can be said with the climate change cabal and the push to net zero which will bankrupt the West and put the standard of living of most of the population, with the exception of the elite class, back to that of the Middle Ages), much of what they have labeled as misinformation, disinformation and conspiracy theories has turned out to be true. No wonder trust in Government and Governmental institutions is so low. In the US, for example, at least half the population have no faith in anything put out by 3 letter agencies such as the NIH, CDC, the FDA and the NAS. But the unfortunately the elites live in a bubble of their own making and only talk to one another in the same echo chamber, so they just double down, and continually reward the greatest purveyors of misinformation within their class. (Fauci is a great example of that and he continually is lauded with prize after prize, despite the fact that he was a complete and utter disaster over the last 3 years).

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Every year the percentage of people who believe the mainstream press, university professors, etc, goes down quite significantly. Progressive politicians have been propped up by these institutions and know they can’t succeed without their thumb on the scales. Hence the frantic attempt to pass laws censoring ‘disinformation’ while there are still enough people left who believe them.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

You were doing quite well until your claim about net zero and the standard of living in the Middle Ages. Why use such a hackneyed trope – essentially meaningless given advances in healthcare (e.g. surgical techniques) and technology – whilst discussing the faultlines of disinformation? It only serves to provide a classic example of that which you seek to condemn.

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

I thought life expectancy is on the decline, so the advances you mention don’t appear to be working.
The push for net zero will undoubtedly make people poorer and poverty kills a lot if people. Sadly when you confront the pro establishment about net zero you are automatically declared a climate denier. I believe the climate is changing, the planet is getting warmer and it’s caused by humans. What I strongly disagree with, is that its an emergency or a disaster. My concern is how we go about achieving net zero, as an example giving rich people a discount on expensive electric cars, does nothing in achieving net zero.
Starmer has stated that under a Labour government, they will achieve net zero in electricity production by 2030, yet he’s provided no detail as to how this will be done or what it will cost. The National Grid has already said it will cost 3 trillion (Sterling), so there are valid questions that need to be asked, without being called a climate denier.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andy Moore
Nick Wade
Nick Wade
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

The Climate is undoubtedly changing, as it always has, due to a multitude of reasons. Humans might be one of them, but pinning it all on one gas, CO2, for which humans are responsible for 3% of, and makes up 0.04% off the atmosphere is bonkers. Then pursuing “Net Zero” in response to this fantasy, invented by modellers is just bonkers on steroids. But you believe what you want to believe.
Plants eat CO2, btw, and we eat plants….

Last edited 1 year ago by Nick Wade
Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Nick Wade

I try not to eat plants.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Nick Wade

I try not to eat plants.

Desmond Wolf
Desmond Wolf
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

Yeswe need fewer regressive and penalising measures like taxing petrol and congestion and more progressive and productive ones like creating a wave of skilled jobs through a green new deal, aimed at developing say the energy storage capacity of the national grid for a future of renewable energy?

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

Invoking the Middle Ages in this discussion is simply nonsense, full stop.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

The reason it’s an emergency is that CO2 persists in the atmosphere for 200 years, so everything we have produced and are going to produce is accumulating fast (and trapping energy into the global ecosystem through the greenhouse process).
However, whilst the talk of aiming for Net Zero is noble and well intended, I certainly agree that it’s unrealistic because it will cause a social and economic disaster – but there you go, that’s why we’re in a pickle.

andy young
andy young
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Until the plants get hold of it. Damn those plants.

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

You are profoundly ignorant about CO2 history. It’s not much above the lowest its ever been for the last four billion years. It’s been twenty – thirty times higher in the past. No runaway greenhouse effect then. Around the time CO2 was at it’s lowest point plants were dying off for lack of it and it set off one of the biggest ice ages ever. Animals died when the plants did. Photoplankton are the primary consumers of CO2, then land plants. It wasn’t until fungus and bacteria figured out how to consume lignin so dead plants could be eaten by them which released bound up CO2 back into the atmosphere that it began to rise off that killing floor point it had reached. And eventually reversed the ice age.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago

Wow, the irony. A lesson in the distant past yet absolutely clueless about current issues, and you think I’m ignorant. Chortle. One doesn’t need a history lesson, one needs a science lesson, any school kid even at primary level will be more informed than you.

Charles Brewer
Charles Brewer
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Perhaps that’s because Jeff (like all other people who have advanced past superstition and magic) thinks that the principles of natural processes which we categorise as science remain the same over time and in all locations in space. In other words, it is more rational and intelligent to use examples from the past of things which did happen, then to make up fantasies in the present about things for which there is virtually zero likelihood of them happening.

Charles Brewer
Charles Brewer
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Perhaps that’s because Jeff (like all other people who have advanced past superstition and magic) thinks that the principles of natural processes which we categorise as science remain the same over time and in all locations in space. In other words, it is more rational and intelligent to use examples from the past of things which did happen, then to make up fantasies in the present about things for which there is virtually zero likelihood of them happening.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago

Wow, the irony. A lesson in the distant past yet absolutely clueless about current issues, and you think I’m ignorant. Chortle. One doesn’t need a history lesson, one needs a science lesson, any school kid even at primary level will be more informed than you.

andy young
andy young
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

Until the plants get hold of it. Damn those plants.

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago
Reply to  Robbie K

You are profoundly ignorant about CO2 history. It’s not much above the lowest its ever been for the last four billion years. It’s been twenty – thirty times higher in the past. No runaway greenhouse effect then. Around the time CO2 was at it’s lowest point plants were dying off for lack of it and it set off one of the biggest ice ages ever. Animals died when the plants did. Photoplankton are the primary consumers of CO2, then land plants. It wasn’t until fungus and bacteria figured out how to consume lignin so dead plants could be eaten by them which released bound up CO2 back into the atmosphere that it began to rise off that killing floor point it had reached. And eventually reversed the ice age.

Nick Wade
Nick Wade
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

The Climate is undoubtedly changing, as it always has, due to a multitude of reasons. Humans might be one of them, but pinning it all on one gas, CO2, for which humans are responsible for 3% of, and makes up 0.04% off the atmosphere is bonkers. Then pursuing “Net Zero” in response to this fantasy, invented by modellers is just bonkers on steroids. But you believe what you want to believe.
Plants eat CO2, btw, and we eat plants….

Last edited 1 year ago by Nick Wade
Desmond Wolf
Desmond Wolf
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

Yeswe need fewer regressive and penalising measures like taxing petrol and congestion and more progressive and productive ones like creating a wave of skilled jobs through a green new deal, aimed at developing say the energy storage capacity of the national grid for a future of renewable energy?

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

Invoking the Middle Ages in this discussion is simply nonsense, full stop.

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Andy Moore

The reason it’s an emergency is that CO2 persists in the atmosphere for 200 years, so everything we have produced and are going to produce is accumulating fast (and trapping energy into the global ecosystem through the greenhouse process).
However, whilst the talk of aiming for Net Zero is noble and well intended, I certainly agree that it’s unrealistic because it will cause a social and economic disaster – but there you go, that’s why we’re in a pickle.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Advances like medical students being forced to say a DEI pledge, and the move to segregate patients and doctors by race? How about “other ways of knowing”, i.e. the recent claim that the use of Māori magic is as valid as Western medical techniques and treatments.
There is an obvious push to reduce our standard of living: unaffordable and completely impractical electric cars, the persecution of Dutch farmers and meat producers in general, the demonization of carbon, airlines and other industries being forced to hire based on immutable characteristics and not competency. And, perhaps the worst of it, the supposed arbiters of information, the MSM, constantly p*ssing on our boots and telling us it’s raining.

Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

While the comment about standard of living falling to that of the Middle Ages was hyperbole, I believe there is no question that the head-long rush to net zero without any real thought about the pluses and minus, and most especially the downsides, will result in the enrichment of a few at the expense of the rest of us. When one has rolling brown outs because there is no longer a continuous source of electricity production and when the price of electricity goes way up, poverty will increase throughout most of the population. This in turn will result in decreases in overall health, life expectancy, etc. etc. It’s really the same principle as we saw happen as a result of lockdowns: the privileged elites benefitted immensely but the poor, disadvantaged and those who actually had to work on site (as opposed to in the comfort of their homes and bedrooms) lost out.

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Talking of hyperbole.

Rolling brown -outs? Who is suggesting total reliance on wind and solar energy without massive improvement in battery technology to avoid such a thing? Obviously no-one (except the nay-sayers). Never mind the progress being made in tide and geothermal energy which doesn’t have such problems.

Price of electricity way up? Perhaps you hadn’t noticed but this has just happened big-time (perhaps you would say bigly) because of the reliance on fossil fuel resources held by a few. ‘Renewable’ energy is cheaper than fossil fuel energy and will become cheaper. Certainly for rural communities in the ‘South’ solar power is an absolute game-changer for poverty.

Ms Burrows above says that electric cars are ‘unaffordable and completely impractical. Blindingly obviously that is a false statement: people buy them so they are affordable, and no doubt as technology advances they will become cheaper; they are obviously practical as lots of people happily drive around in them! That doesn’t mean that they are suitable for everyone, but if that’s what you mean then say it.

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Ms Barrows says that people buy yachts, private planes, and mansions, too. Yep, those hometown folks should be eager to accept a ridiculously costly vehicle with a nearly non-existent resale value and a battery that renders the car “totaled” if it gets so much as a scratch on it. Oh, and installing those charging stations that take forever when they work at all (check out their efficacy in freezing temps) all over the country will be super cost-effective. Good grief, man.

Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
1 year ago

Very well put. You have hit the mail on the head. But I doubt you will ever convince those who have adopted the religious faith of the BBC.

Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
1 year ago

Very well put. You have hit the mail on the head. But I doubt you will ever convince those who have adopted the religious faith of the BBC.

Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Perhaps you want to visit California and you will experience brown-outs first hand. As for fuel and electricity prices, the UK and the US could both be self-sufficient. Indeed, the US was self-sufficient until the current administration basically made oil drilling a no-go. The UK has plenty of oil, not just in the North Sea but also on land, or more precisely under the land, which can be easily extracted by fracking.
As for the practicality of electric cars, they are only practical when used by a few. It would be impractical to have charging stations at 15 ft intervals on every street in London. And if one relied on electric charge stations to replace gas (or should I say petrol for my British friends), then one would have to expand the size of the electric charging stations by at least 5-6 fold relative to those occupied by gas stations. The reason is simple: it takes literally 5 min to fill a full tank of gas, but at least 30 min to fully charge an EV.
The other practical considerations is that the contents of EV batteries are not renewable: the batteries last no more than 10 years at best, and converting the lithium back into the appropriate form entails the use of a huge amount of energy. Further, the rare earths, cobalt and lithium required for current Li-ion batteries come from countries (such as the Congo, Afghanistan and China) where child and slave labor are common, and where environmental considerations are not taken into account. So ultimately, EV technology is nowhere near as clean environmentally or in terms of CO2 production as one would like to think. Of course the consumer in the West is blind to that and can therefore feel highly virtuous.

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Perhaps you are unaware that the CEO of the main fracking company in the UK has declared that having now done the research UK geology (or whatever it is) makes the UK unsuitable for commercial fracking and has withdrawn from the field. It is therefore not true that there is enough oil and gas there to be fracked to make us self-sufficient. And in the USA, for how long?

Electric car charging is very practical. If you have a parking area at home, like most people who can afford an electric car (which is not just those wealthy enough to have yachts etc!), it is simple, and cheap. You are also I guess unaware that electric charging stations are now being installed in lamp posts across London – not quite 15ft apart but not far from it. And freezing weather is not much of a hindrance in most parts of the UK, and becoming less so – because of climate change!

I agree that the CO2 impact of electric cars has a long payback time, but it is there and it will come down rapidly as technology moves on apace. Battery technology is moving on very fast, don’t discount that.

And of course if you are routinely driving longish distances then having and electric car is in many ways impractical at present, nobody can argue otherwise.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tony Price
Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Lots of downvotes but why? What have I said that is factually incorrect?

Charles Brewer
Charles Brewer
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

What makes “the UK unsuitable for commercial fracking” has nothing to do with geology, but is a combination of the uncertainty of being able to run a continuous business without some bureaucrat or trustafarian NGO employee deciding to shut you down with no compensation; the gross skewing of the market by charging hydrocarbon-based energy infrastructures a fortune to subsidise the useless “renewable” energy providers; the catastrophic Hunt-sources levels of corporate taxation and the certainty of government subsidised violent protests with zero police protection.
Fracking for oil and gas in the Trough of Bowland (alone) would rejuvenate the north of England, provide significant direct employment and vast amounts of indirect employment as manufacturing returned (as it did under Trump in the USA).

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Lots of downvotes but why? What have I said that is factually incorrect?

Charles Brewer
Charles Brewer
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

What makes “the UK unsuitable for commercial fracking” has nothing to do with geology, but is a combination of the uncertainty of being able to run a continuous business without some bureaucrat or trustafarian NGO employee deciding to shut you down with no compensation; the gross skewing of the market by charging hydrocarbon-based energy infrastructures a fortune to subsidise the useless “renewable” energy providers; the catastrophic Hunt-sources levels of corporate taxation and the certainty of government subsidised violent protests with zero police protection.
Fracking for oil and gas in the Trough of Bowland (alone) would rejuvenate the north of England, provide significant direct employment and vast amounts of indirect employment as manufacturing returned (as it did under Trump in the USA).

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Perhaps you are unaware that the CEO of the main fracking company in the UK has declared that having now done the research UK geology (or whatever it is) makes the UK unsuitable for commercial fracking and has withdrawn from the field. It is therefore not true that there is enough oil and gas there to be fracked to make us self-sufficient. And in the USA, for how long?

Electric car charging is very practical. If you have a parking area at home, like most people who can afford an electric car (which is not just those wealthy enough to have yachts etc!), it is simple, and cheap. You are also I guess unaware that electric charging stations are now being installed in lamp posts across London – not quite 15ft apart but not far from it. And freezing weather is not much of a hindrance in most parts of the UK, and becoming less so – because of climate change!

I agree that the CO2 impact of electric cars has a long payback time, but it is there and it will come down rapidly as technology moves on apace. Battery technology is moving on very fast, don’t discount that.

And of course if you are routinely driving longish distances then having and electric car is in many ways impractical at present, nobody can argue otherwise.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tony Price
laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

We had a couple of brown-outs in Brooklyn last summer. Whatever production tech they’re using just couldn’t keep up with the demand. And it wasn’t nearly as hot as heat waves I remember from my youth. (Officially, a heat wave is a certain number of days over 90F degrees, so it gets a lot of press and is easy to remember.)
They’re not increasing production as fast as we’re increasing demand, and they’re not going to build more gas-fired plants, so…brown-outs for the “public good”. Sound familiar?

Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Ms Barrows says that people buy yachts, private planes, and mansions, too. Yep, those hometown folks should be eager to accept a ridiculously costly vehicle with a nearly non-existent resale value and a battery that renders the car “totaled” if it gets so much as a scratch on it. Oh, and installing those charging stations that take forever when they work at all (check out their efficacy in freezing temps) all over the country will be super cost-effective. Good grief, man.

Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

Perhaps you want to visit California and you will experience brown-outs first hand. As for fuel and electricity prices, the UK and the US could both be self-sufficient. Indeed, the US was self-sufficient until the current administration basically made oil drilling a no-go. The UK has plenty of oil, not just in the North Sea but also on land, or more precisely under the land, which can be easily extracted by fracking.
As for the practicality of electric cars, they are only practical when used by a few. It would be impractical to have charging stations at 15 ft intervals on every street in London. And if one relied on electric charge stations to replace gas (or should I say petrol for my British friends), then one would have to expand the size of the electric charging stations by at least 5-6 fold relative to those occupied by gas stations. The reason is simple: it takes literally 5 min to fill a full tank of gas, but at least 30 min to fully charge an EV.
The other practical considerations is that the contents of EV batteries are not renewable: the batteries last no more than 10 years at best, and converting the lithium back into the appropriate form entails the use of a huge amount of energy. Further, the rare earths, cobalt and lithium required for current Li-ion batteries come from countries (such as the Congo, Afghanistan and China) where child and slave labor are common, and where environmental considerations are not taken into account. So ultimately, EV technology is nowhere near as clean environmentally or in terms of CO2 production as one would like to think. Of course the consumer in the West is blind to that and can therefore feel highly virtuous.

laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Price

We had a couple of brown-outs in Brooklyn last summer. Whatever production tech they’re using just couldn’t keep up with the demand. And it wasn’t nearly as hot as heat waves I remember from my youth. (Officially, a heat wave is a certain number of days over 90F degrees, so it gets a lot of press and is easy to remember.)
They’re not increasing production as fast as we’re increasing demand, and they’re not going to build more gas-fired plants, so…brown-outs for the “public good”. Sound familiar?

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Talking of hyperbole.

Rolling brown -outs? Who is suggesting total reliance on wind and solar energy without massive improvement in battery technology to avoid such a thing? Obviously no-one (except the nay-sayers). Never mind the progress being made in tide and geothermal energy which doesn’t have such problems.

Price of electricity way up? Perhaps you hadn’t noticed but this has just happened big-time (perhaps you would say bigly) because of the reliance on fossil fuel resources held by a few. ‘Renewable’ energy is cheaper than fossil fuel energy and will become cheaper. Certainly for rural communities in the ‘South’ solar power is an absolute game-changer for poverty.

Ms Burrows above says that electric cars are ‘unaffordable and completely impractical. Blindingly obviously that is a false statement: people buy them so they are affordable, and no doubt as technology advances they will become cheaper; they are obviously practical as lots of people happily drive around in them! That doesn’t mean that they are suitable for everyone, but if that’s what you mean then say it.

Peter Appleby
Peter Appleby
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Aldous Huxley noted that ‘Medical science has made such tremendous progress, that there is hardly a healthy human left’. During the pandemic, there was a strong inverse correlation between the amount of ‘healthcare’ given in the form of medical interventions and positive Covid outcomes. It was as if more healthcare equalled less health. The country most prone to needless medical science interventions, the US, is near the bottom of the developed world league re many health metrics, like infant mortality, and duly suffered a massive fall in life expectancy of 2.7 years last year as a result of it’s propensity to follow science that is closely following the money.

Mash Mallow
Mash Mallow
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

The atmosphere contains 440pp CO2 currently. That is rising from around 180ppm from the late 1700s. During the dinasaur ages it was in the 1000s ppm. Big plants, big dinosaurs. Please tell us at what level of CO2 in the atmosphere do plants stop growing and we all start to die? That’s science; not politics of the Big Reset.

Last edited 1 year ago by Mash Mallow
Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Impoverishment through unrealistic energy restrictions and hyper regulation will also strangle innovation and the advances in technology. It’s doing so already. The pace of innovation has slowed noticeably in recent decades.

Rachel Taylor
Rachel Taylor
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

The debate is not about what people choose to believe or say. It is about whether suppressing free speech results in more or less trust in those doing the suppressing.
I believe it results in less trust. If I have a chance to listen to different arguments, I can pick the one that seems reasonable to me. If one of those arguments is suppressed, there is a significant risk I will not believe what they are saying, because I know there is something else they don’t want me to know. And why would they not want me to know? Only because I might believe it.
I certainly now automatically disbelieve almost anything the BBC says. If they show images, I will assume they are highly selective. If they report speech, I will assume it is highly selective. I will close my ears entirely to the journalist’s opinion, because I know it will simply be a statement of narrative.

Andy Moore
Andy Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

I thought life expectancy is on the decline, so the advances you mention don’t appear to be working.
The push for net zero will undoubtedly make people poorer and poverty kills a lot if people. Sadly when you confront the pro establishment about net zero you are automatically declared a climate denier. I believe the climate is changing, the planet is getting warmer and it’s caused by humans. What I strongly disagree with, is that its an emergency or a disaster. My concern is how we go about achieving net zero, as an example giving rich people a discount on expensive electric cars, does nothing in achieving net zero.
Starmer has stated that under a Labour government, they will achieve net zero in electricity production by 2030, yet he’s provided no detail as to how this will be done or what it will cost. The National Grid has already said it will cost 3 trillion (Sterling), so there are valid questions that need to be asked, without being called a climate denier.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andy Moore
Allison Barrows
Allison Barrows
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Advances like medical students being forced to say a DEI pledge, and the move to segregate patients and doctors by race? How about “other ways of knowing”, i.e. the recent claim that the use of Māori magic is as valid as Western medical techniques and treatments.
There is an obvious push to reduce our standard of living: unaffordable and completely impractical electric cars, the persecution of Dutch farmers and meat producers in general, the demonization of carbon, airlines and other industries being forced to hire based on immutable characteristics and not competency. And, perhaps the worst of it, the supposed arbiters of information, the MSM, constantly p*ssing on our boots and telling us it’s raining.

Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

While the comment about standard of living falling to that of the Middle Ages was hyperbole, I believe there is no question that the head-long rush to net zero without any real thought about the pluses and minus, and most especially the downsides, will result in the enrichment of a few at the expense of the rest of us. When one has rolling brown outs because there is no longer a continuous source of electricity production and when the price of electricity goes way up, poverty will increase throughout most of the population. This in turn will result in decreases in overall health, life expectancy, etc. etc. It’s really the same principle as we saw happen as a result of lockdowns: the privileged elites benefitted immensely but the poor, disadvantaged and those who actually had to work on site (as opposed to in the comfort of their homes and bedrooms) lost out.

Peter Appleby
Peter Appleby
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Aldous Huxley noted that ‘Medical science has made such tremendous progress, that there is hardly a healthy human left’. During the pandemic, there was a strong inverse correlation between the amount of ‘healthcare’ given in the form of medical interventions and positive Covid outcomes. It was as if more healthcare equalled less health. The country most prone to needless medical science interventions, the US, is near the bottom of the developed world league re many health metrics, like infant mortality, and duly suffered a massive fall in life expectancy of 2.7 years last year as a result of it’s propensity to follow science that is closely following the money.

Mash Mallow
Mash Mallow
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

The atmosphere contains 440pp CO2 currently. That is rising from around 180ppm from the late 1700s. During the dinasaur ages it was in the 1000s ppm. Big plants, big dinosaurs. Please tell us at what level of CO2 in the atmosphere do plants stop growing and we all start to die? That’s science; not politics of the Big Reset.

Last edited 1 year ago by Mash Mallow
Brendan O'Leary
Brendan O'Leary
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

Impoverishment through unrealistic energy restrictions and hyper regulation will also strangle innovation and the advances in technology. It’s doing so already. The pace of innovation has slowed noticeably in recent decades.

Rachel Taylor
Rachel Taylor
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Murray

The debate is not about what people choose to believe or say. It is about whether suppressing free speech results in more or less trust in those doing the suppressing.
I believe it results in less trust. If I have a chance to listen to different arguments, I can pick the one that seems reasonable to me. If one of those arguments is suppressed, there is a significant risk I will not believe what they are saying, because I know there is something else they don’t want me to know. And why would they not want me to know? Only because I might believe it.
I certainly now automatically disbelieve almost anything the BBC says. If they show images, I will assume they are highly selective. If they report speech, I will assume it is highly selective. I will close my ears entirely to the journalist’s opinion, because I know it will simply be a statement of narrative.

John Sullivan
John Sullivan
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

I see a few have objected to your refence to the Middle Ages. You might not be as far out as some think.
The Dummies Guide to UK Net Zero

Peter Johnson
Peter Johnson
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

Every year the percentage of people who believe the mainstream press, university professors, etc, goes down quite significantly. Progressive politicians have been propped up by these institutions and know they can’t succeed without their thumb on the scales. Hence the frantic attempt to pass laws censoring ‘disinformation’ while there are still enough people left who believe them.

Steve Murray
Steve Murray
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

You were doing quite well until your claim about net zero and the standard of living in the Middle Ages. Why use such a hackneyed trope – essentially meaningless given advances in healthcare (e.g. surgical techniques) and technology – whilst discussing the faultlines of disinformation? It only serves to provide a classic example of that which you seek to condemn.

John Sullivan
John Sullivan
1 year ago
Reply to  Johann Strauss

I see a few have objected to your refence to the Middle Ages. You might not be as far out as some think.
The Dummies Guide to UK Net Zero

Johann Strauss
Johann Strauss
1 year ago

The purpose of freedom of speech and the 1st amendment of the US constitution is to ensure that there is free interchange of information such that everything is subject to the market place of ideas. When people these days, especially elites and elite institutions, talk about misinformation, disinformation or even conspiracy theories, all they are really saying is that the information they are calling out is not part of the elite and governmental consensus narrative. But unfortunately for these people, especially over the last 3 years with Covid (and the same can be said with the climate change cabal and the push to net zero which will bankrupt the West and put the standard of living of most of the population, with the exception of the elite class, back to that of the Middle Ages), much of what they have labeled as misinformation, disinformation and conspiracy theories has turned out to be true. No wonder trust in Government and Governmental institutions is so low. In the US, for example, at least half the population have no faith in anything put out by 3 letter agencies such as the NIH, CDC, the FDA and the NAS. But the unfortunately the elites live in a bubble of their own making and only talk to one another in the same echo chamber, so they just double down, and continually reward the greatest purveyors of misinformation within their class. (Fauci is a great example of that and he continually is lauded with prize after prize, despite the fact that he was a complete and utter disaster over the last 3 years).

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago

Many thanks, as always, to Dr. Stock for top-notch writing. There is another form of disinformation, namely when the journalist or researcher publishes their conclusions, having prematurely ceased to to be skeptical about their data. So this is not strictly “disinformation”, just not as informative as it might be.
Here is an example from the Unherd Britain poll in February: 33% agreed with the assertion “trans women are women”. I thought that this was a bit high and did my own poll: a perfectly random sample of the blokes (all Scots) with whom I play football (soccer in yankspeak). Half did not really know what “trans woman” means, but had heard Nicola Sturgeon repeat the “trans women are women” mantra countless times, so some assumed that the assertion must be correct. (It seemed to depend on their attitude to Nicola.) Had the pollsters used the alternative assertion “a bloke who says he thinks he’s a woman is a woman” then a different picture would have emerged from the poll.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peter Kwasi-Modo
laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
1 year ago

Also, any statistical evidence quoted would come with an estimate of probability; “+or- 3%” for example. The readers could see for themselves that the statistics aren’t as meaningful as the headlines implied. Those estimates disappeared a dozen years ago. (+or- a few years).

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago

The question is deliberately vague in my opinion. If you’re talking about a post op transsexual then more people will agree with the statement than if you’re discussing a man in a dress with his meat and two veg still attached. Blurring the boundaries of the two makes support for the second appear much higher than it actually is

laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
1 year ago

Also, any statistical evidence quoted would come with an estimate of probability; “+or- 3%” for example. The readers could see for themselves that the statistics aren’t as meaningful as the headlines implied. Those estimates disappeared a dozen years ago. (+or- a few years).

Billy Bob
Billy Bob
1 year ago

The question is deliberately vague in my opinion. If you’re talking about a post op transsexual then more people will agree with the statement than if you’re discussing a man in a dress with his meat and two veg still attached. Blurring the boundaries of the two makes support for the second appear much higher than it actually is

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago

Many thanks, as always, to Dr. Stock for top-notch writing. There is another form of disinformation, namely when the journalist or researcher publishes their conclusions, having prematurely ceased to to be skeptical about their data. So this is not strictly “disinformation”, just not as informative as it might be.
Here is an example from the Unherd Britain poll in February: 33% agreed with the assertion “trans women are women”. I thought that this was a bit high and did my own poll: a perfectly random sample of the blokes (all Scots) with whom I play football (soccer in yankspeak). Half did not really know what “trans woman” means, but had heard Nicola Sturgeon repeat the “trans women are women” mantra countless times, so some assumed that the assertion must be correct. (It seemed to depend on their attitude to Nicola.) Had the pollsters used the alternative assertion “a bloke who says he thinks he’s a woman is a woman” then a different picture would have emerged from the poll.

Last edited 1 year ago by Peter Kwasi-Modo
Malcolm Knott
Malcolm Knott
1 year ago

Compare any of the serious broadsheets today with their ancestors 50 or 100 years ago. The current absence of hard, detailed information (expensive) and the preponderance of commentary and opinion pieces (inexpensive) is depressing.

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

I wonder how soon broadsheet proprietors will realise that they can easily replace all of the writers of opinion pieces with Chat GPT. Hardly any of the readers will be able to tell the difference.

Malcolm Knott
Malcolm Knott
1 year ago

My comment was in fact written by Chat GPT, as was your response.

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

Curse you! There’s no honour between bots.

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

Curse you! There’s no honour between bots.

Mr Bellisarius
Mr Bellisarius
1 year ago

Well chatGpt is keen to tell is does not know anything beyond 2021. But perhaps you’re right, maybe readers wouldn’t notice anyway.

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

Dear Mr (Count, surely?) Beliarius, sometime Chat GPT throws its hands in the air and confesses that its training data onl goes up to September, 2021. But, regrettably, sometimes it tries to blag its way through more recent topics by talking about them in very generic, non-specific ways. What is starting to be called “botplanation”. It is this blagging ability that should stand them in good stead as the opinion piece writers of tomorrow.

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bellisarius

Dear Mr (Count, surely?) Beliarius, sometime Chat GPT throws its hands in the air and confesses that its training data onl goes up to September, 2021. But, regrettably, sometimes it tries to blag its way through more recent topics by talking about them in very generic, non-specific ways. What is starting to be called “botplanation”. It is this blagging ability that should stand them in good stead as the opinion piece writers of tomorrow.

Malcolm Knott
Malcolm Knott
1 year ago

My comment was in fact written by Chat GPT, as was your response.

Mr Bellisarius
Mr Bellisarius
1 year ago

Well chatGpt is keen to tell is does not know anything beyond 2021. But perhaps you’re right, maybe readers wouldn’t notice anyway.

Stephen Magee
Stephen Magee
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

Ah, the mythical Golden Age of Broadsheet Journalism. Journalists 50 or 100 years ago were no more ethical, objective or intelligent than they are now. Evelyn Waugh, who knew the system, skewered it a number of his novels.

Liam Brady
Liam Brady
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

Agree. But what about the decline of British news? They are an absolute disgrace and embarrassment. BBC,Sky and ITN all opinionated, patronising and liberal left. And we pay for the BBC – depressing.

Carol Moore
Carol Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam Brady

Agree

Carol Moore
Carol Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Liam Brady

Agree

Peter Kwasi-Modo
Peter Kwasi-Modo
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

I wonder how soon broadsheet proprietors will realise that they can easily replace all of the writers of opinion pieces with Chat GPT. Hardly any of the readers will be able to tell the difference.

Stephen Magee
Stephen Magee
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

Ah, the mythical Golden Age of Broadsheet Journalism. Journalists 50 or 100 years ago were no more ethical, objective or intelligent than they are now. Evelyn Waugh, who knew the system, skewered it a number of his novels.

Liam Brady
Liam Brady
1 year ago
Reply to  Malcolm Knott

Agree. But what about the decline of British news? They are an absolute disgrace and embarrassment. BBC,Sky and ITN all opinionated, patronising and liberal left. And we pay for the BBC – depressing.

Malcolm Knott
Malcolm Knott
1 year ago

Compare any of the serious broadsheets today with their ancestors 50 or 100 years ago. The current absence of hard, detailed information (expensive) and the preponderance of commentary and opinion pieces (inexpensive) is depressing.

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago

Ugh. If Twitter is such a problem for someone, don’t use the thing. This isn’t rocket surgery. Our behavior and words have been so over regulated that we’ve totally lost perspective – people getting arrested for saying a silent prayer.

After three years of official Covid lies and disinformation, I would hope people would immediately grasp the danger here. Apparently not.

The author refers to climate change deniers. I’ve been accused of this very thing – even though I believe CO2 is a greenhouse gas that is warming the world. I just don’t think it’s an existential threat, and that net zero will destroy our way of life.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jim Veenbaas
Jason Smith
Jason Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

I love the expression “rocket surgery” and I’m going to make sure I use it today!

Kerie Receveur
Kerie Receveur
1 year ago
Reply to  Jason Smith

Brain surgery or rocket science – time to choose ..!

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Kerie Receveur

brain rocket?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

science surgery?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago

science surgery?

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Kerie Receveur

brain rocket?

Kerie Receveur
Kerie Receveur
1 year ago
Reply to  Jason Smith

Brain surgery or rocket science – time to choose ..!

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Hear hear!!! If people are offended by others views and comments then don’t use ” soshul meeja” prole exchanges: I personally only ” takeafence” out Hunting or on the gallops.

laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
1 year ago

Noate: For dems of uzz oo would wither Chatgpt to the bear banes, a bit’o slang goose a lang wy. (Its exhausting at first, but I’ll get used to it!?)

laurence scaduto
laurence scaduto
1 year ago

Noate: For dems of uzz oo would wither Chatgpt to the bear banes, a bit’o slang goose a lang wy. (Its exhausting at first, but I’ll get used to it!?)

Amy Horseman
Amy Horseman
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Yes, the author is pretty delusional on a number of fronts. Never mind. The farcical “net zero” narrative seems to be collapsing fast. That’s what matters. Reputation-addicted journalists will be the last to know or admit this, of course!

Liam Brady
Liam Brady
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

I partly agree. I left Twitter 2 years ago because it was so toxic. Best think I’ve ever done. However, I am concerned at what it’s doing to society. Dumbing down, polarising opinion and dividing people.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Blasphemer!

Jason Smith
Jason Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

I love the expression “rocket surgery” and I’m going to make sure I use it today!

Nicky Samengo-Turner
Nicky Samengo-Turner
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Hear hear!!! If people are offended by others views and comments then don’t use ” soshul meeja” prole exchanges: I personally only ” takeafence” out Hunting or on the gallops.

Amy Horseman
Amy Horseman
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Yes, the author is pretty delusional on a number of fronts. Never mind. The farcical “net zero” narrative seems to be collapsing fast. That’s what matters. Reputation-addicted journalists will be the last to know or admit this, of course!

Liam Brady
Liam Brady
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

I partly agree. I left Twitter 2 years ago because it was so toxic. Best think I’ve ever done. However, I am concerned at what it’s doing to society. Dumbing down, polarising opinion and dividing people.

CHARLES STANHOPE
CHARLES STANHOPE
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim Veenbaas

Blasphemer!

Jim Veenbaas
Jim Veenbaas
1 year ago

Ugh. If Twitter is such a problem for someone, don’t use the thing. This isn’t rocket surgery. Our behavior and words have been so over regulated that we’ve totally lost perspective – people getting arrested for saying a silent prayer.

After three years of official Covid lies and disinformation, I would hope people would immediately grasp the danger here. Apparently not.

The author refers to climate change deniers. I’ve been accused of this very thing – even though I believe CO2 is a greenhouse gas that is warming the world. I just don’t think it’s an existential threat, and that net zero will destroy our way of life.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jim Veenbaas
Guy Haynes
Guy Haynes
1 year ago

The disinformation/misinformation industry, as well as being a fairly blatant tool for suppressing dissent against the approved narrative, seems to feed into the current frenzied desire to pigeon-hole everyone into a category, to define them as either good or bad.

For example, someone believing that immigration is a good thing, believes in the plight of refugees but believes that anyone entering a country illegally should be turned away is pigeon holed as anti-immigrant and often much worse. Someone who has taken the vaccines but has concerns over mandates, or that the small risk of side effects is being underrepresented and that these risks, however small, may outweigh the risks of not taking the vaccine in the younger population, is pigeon holed as anti-vaccine. Someone who broadly believes that man contributes to the climate, believes that man has a duty to improve the environment, but has concerns that the solutions proposed are wrong (for whatever reason) is pigeon-holed as a climate denier.

And this is where the industry is so pernicious. Statements that contain even the slightest inaccuracy (even if a technicality) on subjects such as those above are jumped on from a great height, even if the broad gist is correct. Yet the reverse is not true. How many times has someone saying that there is no evidence of side effects from the vaccines, or that the vaccines stop you from getting covid been censured by these guardians of truth? How many times has someone who said that “hardly anyone” enters the UK illegally been censured? None I’d wager.

This is nothing more than another tool to protect the accepted narrative, and worse, a tool to demonise anyone who even questions the narrative. Sadly, it’s hardly a surprise to see the BBC on board with such a grubby industry.

Guy Haynes
Guy Haynes
1 year ago

The disinformation/misinformation industry, as well as being a fairly blatant tool for suppressing dissent against the approved narrative, seems to feed into the current frenzied desire to pigeon-hole everyone into a category, to define them as either good or bad.

For example, someone believing that immigration is a good thing, believes in the plight of refugees but believes that anyone entering a country illegally should be turned away is pigeon holed as anti-immigrant and often much worse. Someone who has taken the vaccines but has concerns over mandates, or that the small risk of side effects is being underrepresented and that these risks, however small, may outweigh the risks of not taking the vaccine in the younger population, is pigeon holed as anti-vaccine. Someone who broadly believes that man contributes to the climate, believes that man has a duty to improve the environment, but has concerns that the solutions proposed are wrong (for whatever reason) is pigeon-holed as a climate denier.

And this is where the industry is so pernicious. Statements that contain even the slightest inaccuracy (even if a technicality) on subjects such as those above are jumped on from a great height, even if the broad gist is correct. Yet the reverse is not true. How many times has someone saying that there is no evidence of side effects from the vaccines, or that the vaccines stop you from getting covid been censured by these guardians of truth? How many times has someone who said that “hardly anyone” enters the UK illegally been censured? None I’d wager.

This is nothing more than another tool to protect the accepted narrative, and worse, a tool to demonise anyone who even questions the narrative. Sadly, it’s hardly a surprise to see the BBC on board with such a grubby industry.

Saul D
Saul D
1 year ago

Disinformation is being used to mean heresy.
Consequently, The Heretics must not express an opinion that goes against The Teachings. Those that do must be banished, ex-communicated or forced to repent, and publicly humiliated.
History is not kind to the censors. Their moment of power is short, and their infamy long remembered.

Saul D
Saul D
1 year ago

Disinformation is being used to mean heresy.
Consequently, The Heretics must not express an opinion that goes against The Teachings. Those that do must be banished, ex-communicated or forced to repent, and publicly humiliated.
History is not kind to the censors. Their moment of power is short, and their infamy long remembered.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
1 year ago

Let us suppose that hate speech exists. It certainly exists on Twitter so I stopped looking at Twitter. Easy! But if had a lot of ‘so-called’ friends on Twitter, I’d be missing out wouldn’t I? So it is too easy for me to just condemn social media as a whole.
But I do condemn the BBC because I have to pay for their mind control techniques. Why should I pay for this?
Somebody at the BBC, somebody who’s salary I pay, is deciding what opinions the TV channels should put forward. Which opinions are more important?
The opinions of the viewers? Obviously not. The opinions of men who say they are women? Yes. The opinions of women who believe that women don’t have equal opportunities? Yes. The opinions that the towns and cities of Northern England have ethnic problems? No. The opinions that we should let in as many immigrants as possible? Yes. The idea that we should give up on heat and travel and all freeze to death in the future? Yes, with the caveat that BBC employees can carry on as normal because they are celebs.
I have one other hate issue which is not included. The BBC’s employees’ hatred of their own viewers. The idea that those millions of people watching their programmes are to be subjects of hate because they don’t have stupid minority views.

Last edited 1 year ago by Chris Wheatley
Diane Tasker
Diane Tasker
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

We are very lucky to have Kathleen Stock as a contributor to Unheard. This insightful dissection of yet another inept attempt by the BBC to ‘lead the national narrative’ speaks to, I believe, a silent majority in this country who object to the now quite transparent way the BBC seeks to influence, against its founding principles, the moral and political agenda.

Diane Tasker
Diane Tasker
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Tasker

Plus every time I hear BBC newsreaders trotting out the statement ‘The BBC has learned’ before announcing a news item really winds me up! They are so ‘up themselves’!

Carol Moore
Carol Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Tasker

Agree!

Carol Moore
Carol Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Tasker

Agree!

Diane Tasker
Diane Tasker
1 year ago
Reply to  Diane Tasker

Plus every time I hear BBC newsreaders trotting out the statement ‘The BBC has learned’ before announcing a news item really winds me up! They are so ‘up themselves’!

Diane Tasker
Diane Tasker
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Wheatley

We are very lucky to have Kathleen Stock as a contributor to Unheard. This insightful dissection of yet another inept attempt by the BBC to ‘lead the national narrative’ speaks to, I believe, a silent majority in this country who object to the now quite transparent way the BBC seeks to influence, against its founding principles, the moral and political agenda.

Chris Wheatley
Chris Wheatley
1 year ago

Let us suppose that hate speech exists. It certainly exists on Twitter so I stopped looking at Twitter. Easy! But if had a lot of ‘so-called’ friends on Twitter, I’d be missing out wouldn’t I? So it is too easy for me to just condemn social media as a whole.
But I do condemn the BBC because I have to pay for their mind control techniques. Why should I pay for this?
Somebody at the BBC, somebody who’s salary I pay, is deciding what opinions the TV channels should put forward. Which opinions are more important?
The opinions of the viewers? Obviously not. The opinions of men who say they are women? Yes. The opinions of women who believe that women don’t have equal opportunities? Yes. The opinions that the towns and cities of Northern England have ethnic problems? No. The opinions that we should let in as many immigrants as possible? Yes. The idea that we should give up on heat and travel and all freeze to death in the future? Yes, with the caveat that BBC employees can carry on as normal because they are celebs.
I have one other hate issue which is not included. The BBC’s employees’ hatred of their own viewers. The idea that those millions of people watching their programmes are to be subjects of hate because they don’t have stupid minority views.

Last edited 1 year ago by Chris Wheatley
Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago

Great article. Puts in words exactly what so many think when exposed to these patronising journalists’ takes on current affairs and their creation of problems and yet another need for nannying and legislation where there is none. I wish I could buy the author a drink and thank her for her contributions over the past years which have all been excellent.

Carol Moore
Carol Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Iris Violet

Me too!

Carol Moore
Carol Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Iris Violet

Me too!

Iris Violet
Iris Violet
1 year ago

Great article. Puts in words exactly what so many think when exposed to these patronising journalists’ takes on current affairs and their creation of problems and yet another need for nannying and legislation where there is none. I wish I could buy the author a drink and thank her for her contributions over the past years which have all been excellent.

Tom Lewis
Tom Lewis
1 year ago

“BBC’s Disinformation and Social Media Correspondent”

I will start to trust the ‘disinformation’ correspondent when they are just as happy to talk about, and give as much weight to what ISN’T said compared to what IS said.

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Lewis

Wow – in other words a correspondent who just guesses what people might say as that is just as important as what they do say. No room for bias there then!

Amy Horseman
Amy Horseman
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Lewis

Yes, when the BBC declares something is “disinformation” it’s an excellent signal. Not only is the information undoubtedly true, it’s probably also being purposely twisted in order to hide a nefarious agenda!

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Lewis

Perplexing.

Tom Lewis
Tom Lewis
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Lewis

Sorry, I should maybe have been clearer. When I said “what ISN’T said”, I was referring to, as in courtroom trials, the ‘whole’ truth, rather than just the ‘convenient’ bits. Journalists, amongst others, who, deliberately, tell half truths, maybe even more so than out and out lies, are utterly reprehensible and do more damage than they might imagine. If societies are fragmenting it is because fewer and fewer people trust the middle ground.

Tony Price
Tony Price
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Lewis

Wow – in other words a correspondent who just guesses what people might say as that is just as important as what they do say. No room for bias there then!

Amy Horseman
Amy Horseman
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Lewis

Yes, when the BBC declares something is “disinformation” it’s an excellent signal. Not only is the information undoubtedly true, it’s probably also being purposely twisted in order to hide a nefarious agenda!

Robbie K
Robbie K
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Lewis

Perplexing.

Tom Lewis
Tom Lewis
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom Lewis

Sorry, I should maybe have been clearer. When I said “what ISN’T said”, I was referring to, as in courtroom trials, the ‘whole’ truth, rather than just the ‘convenient’ bits. Journalists, amongst others, who, deliberately, tell half truths, maybe even more so than out and out lies, are utterly reprehensible and do more damage than they might imagine. If societies are fragmenting it is because fewer and fewer people trust the middle ground.

Tom Lewis
Tom Lewis
1 year ago

“BBC’s Disinformation and Social Media Correspondent”

I will start to trust the ‘disinformation’ correspondent when they are just as happy to talk about, and give as much weight to what ISN’T said compared to what IS said.

Kathleen Burnett
Kathleen Burnett
1 year ago

Spring and her like-minded associates will win because the majority of the public have little interest in these issues. Just ask one hundred people, at random, in a typical High Street, for their views on Critical Race Theory.

Kathleen Burnett
Kathleen Burnett
1 year ago

Spring and her like-minded associates will win because the majority of the public have little interest in these issues. Just ask one hundred people, at random, in a typical High Street, for their views on Critical Race Theory.

Julian Pellatt
Julian Pellatt
1 year ago

Excellent article!
The BBC exposing disinformation? How cynical can this organisation become?
The is the BBC TV whose reporters, in 1966 when filming in post-UDI Rhodesia, threw half-crown coins (worth a lot in those days) into dustbins and featured a news item about the starving (thanks to the ogre, Ian smith and his rebel government) black street kids who dived head-first into them to collect such wealth; or who filmed black office workers snoozing in the warm sun during their lunch breaks and broadcast this footage as ‘proof’ of the massacre of black citizens by the Rhodesian government.
I have never taken anything the BBC broadcasts at face value, especially since its descent into extreme wokery over the past 5-10 years, The Woking Class that runs the BBC abuses its enormous power and influence to brainwash audiences into accepting its biased worldview. The BBC licence ‘fee’ (tax by any other name) should be scrapped and the organisation placed on a subscription basis.

Julian Pellatt
Julian Pellatt
1 year ago

Excellent article!
The BBC exposing disinformation? How cynical can this organisation become?
The is the BBC TV whose reporters, in 1966 when filming in post-UDI Rhodesia, threw half-crown coins (worth a lot in those days) into dustbins and featured a news item about the starving (thanks to the ogre, Ian smith and his rebel government) black street kids who dived head-first into them to collect such wealth; or who filmed black office workers snoozing in the warm sun during their lunch breaks and broadcast this footage as ‘proof’ of the massacre of black citizens by the Rhodesian government.
I have never taken anything the BBC broadcasts at face value, especially since its descent into extreme wokery over the past 5-10 years, The Woking Class that runs the BBC abuses its enormous power and influence to brainwash audiences into accepting its biased worldview. The BBC licence ‘fee’ (tax by any other name) should be scrapped and the organisation placed on a subscription basis.

Amy Horseman
Amy Horseman
1 year ago

I don’t understand this article. Are you not aware that “Marianna Spring” is a kind of weak PR copywriter. She is not a journalist. She is given a narrative and told to push it. She gets paid for dressing nicely, showing up to work and not asking any awkward questions. She is at best irrelevant, at worst a collaborator with a really sinister transhumanist agenda. Furthermore the author’s very use of the terms “misinformation” and “disinformation” are meaningless jargon used by propagandists to further their aims. The sharing of all “information” is valid. If it’s not true (such as calling a novel and experimental drug “safe and effective”) then people will find out soon enough. If they’re gullible enough to believe that a ruthless profit-driven corporation (one that has financially captured its own regulator no less) cares about them or that their notoriously dishonest self-serving government would suddenly start telling the truth because it has declared an “emergency” (great analogy is the man who believes the stripper loves him), then that’s on them. People who shriek about “disinformation” are just projecting their gut sense that they’ve been fooled onto others. They just can’t handle the truth. Fortunately a significant number of people now disregard BBC “reporting” altogether. Stay critical, people, it could save your life!

Amy Horseman
Amy Horseman
1 year ago

I don’t understand this article. Are you not aware that “Marianna Spring” is a kind of weak PR copywriter. She is not a journalist. She is given a narrative and told to push it. She gets paid for dressing nicely, showing up to work and not asking any awkward questions. She is at best irrelevant, at worst a collaborator with a really sinister transhumanist agenda. Furthermore the author’s very use of the terms “misinformation” and “disinformation” are meaningless jargon used by propagandists to further their aims. The sharing of all “information” is valid. If it’s not true (such as calling a novel and experimental drug “safe and effective”) then people will find out soon enough. If they’re gullible enough to believe that a ruthless profit-driven corporation (one that has financially captured its own regulator no less) cares about them or that their notoriously dishonest self-serving government would suddenly start telling the truth because it has declared an “emergency” (great analogy is the man who believes the stripper loves him), then that’s on them. People who shriek about “disinformation” are just projecting their gut sense that they’ve been fooled onto others. They just can’t handle the truth. Fortunately a significant number of people now disregard BBC “reporting” altogether. Stay critical, people, it could save your life!

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago

Good essay, Kathleen.

Jeff Cunningham
Jeff Cunningham
1 year ago

Good essay, Kathleen.

Tyler 0
Tyler 0
1 year ago

The prime directive of the BBC now is not to educate, entertain and inform, but to INFLUENCE.
If you hold the role of “Disinformation Reporter” and cannot see the heavily Orwellian irony of such a job title, you cannot be expected to have the least modicum of self awareness. These people are lost.
The central assumption of woke politics is that problems exist because people don’t think and speak about the world and everything in it in the right way. Disinformation reporting is a woke occupation par excellence, because your job is to highlight error wherever wrong think or speech rears it’s ugly head, and reaffirm what is known to be right.
The problem with this, of course, is that what is “known to be right” consists of an ever growing farrago of a priori assumptions (around climate change, race, gender, vaccines, Covid, DEI) which are not to be questioned and are defended not by reason (that would require questioning) but by stigmatizing dissent ad hominem. Again, this is the “Disinformation Reporter’s” stock in trade.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tyler 0
Tyler 0
Tyler 0
1 year ago

The prime directive of the BBC now is not to educate, entertain and inform, but to INFLUENCE.
If you hold the role of “Disinformation Reporter” and cannot see the heavily Orwellian irony of such a job title, you cannot be expected to have the least modicum of self awareness. These people are lost.
The central assumption of woke politics is that problems exist because people don’t think and speak about the world and everything in it in the right way. Disinformation reporting is a woke occupation par excellence, because your job is to highlight error wherever wrong think or speech rears it’s ugly head, and reaffirm what is known to be right.
The problem with this, of course, is that what is “known to be right” consists of an ever growing farrago of a priori assumptions (around climate change, race, gender, vaccines, Covid, DEI) which are not to be questioned and are defended not by reason (that would require questioning) but by stigmatizing dissent ad hominem. Again, this is the “Disinformation Reporter’s” stock in trade.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tyler 0
Walter Lantz
Walter Lantz
1 year ago

We don’t see much of the Beeb on this side of the pond but its colonial cousin the CBC works very much the same way as do other legacy media outlets. They have devolved into state media outlets.
Naturally the trust levels and viewership have plummeted as it turns out most people are quite capable of realizing actual disinformation and the incessant gas-lighting that goes along with it.
Recently the CBC set up a friendly interview with the current president Catherine Tait to address lack of trust in the MSM. Apparently it all started with Trump and his battle against MSM. Then the interview just settled into a series of gentle serves lobbed Tait’s way so she could smash the returns back. The CBC is actually a victim of misinformation. Unnamed dark alt- Right forces are deluding the gullible proles was the general theme of the interview.
The core point that resonated with me was the apparent ignorance or deliberate misrepresentation of “Trust”. There was the sense that trust is not something earned but rather something the CBC was entitled to and that was unfairly being taken away. Not trusting the CBC is a failure on the viewer’s part – not the network. “It’s not me, it’s you”.

Ray Andrews
Ray Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  Walter Lantz

Remember Ideas with Lister? Remember when, no matter how bad your day may have been, at 9:00, for an hour, you could forget about everything? Now we have a sort of woke-jihadi in his place, and episodes such as the black lesiban-feminist take on the worldwide sand shortage, or a squaw with a quota PhD telling us that the Indians ‘come from here’ — they can’t have come from Asia because 15,000 years ago, Asia wasn’t called Asia. QED.

Walter Lantz
Walter Lantz
1 year ago
Reply to  Ray Andrews

Lister was a bit before my time I think but I enjoyed many years of Gzowski’s Morningside, Enright on As it Happens and Brown’s Sunday Morning. Canadians of a certain age will recall “Fireside Al” Maitland reading short stories – especially at Christmas. All shows that were either entertaining or informative and likely both. No doubt UK listeners had similar versions from the BBC. It’s all gone of course and replaced by diversity quota hirelings parading an endless lineup of web-accredited pseudo-intellectuals explaining why every existential calamity that befalls marginalized citizens such as non-winning lottery tickets or dropped cell calls, can be directly attributed to Canada’s sordid white colonialist oppressors.
Haven’t listened to Ceeb radio for at least 20 years.

Walter Lantz
Walter Lantz
1 year ago
Reply to  Ray Andrews

Lister was a bit before my time I think but I enjoyed many years of Gzowski’s Morningside, Enright on As it Happens and Brown’s Sunday Morning. Canadians of a certain age will recall “Fireside Al” Maitland reading short stories – especially at Christmas. All shows that were either entertaining or informative and likely both. No doubt UK listeners had similar versions from the BBC. It’s all gone of course and replaced by diversity quota hirelings parading an endless lineup of web-accredited pseudo-intellectuals explaining why every existential calamity that befalls marginalized citizens such as non-winning lottery tickets or dropped cell calls, can be directly attributed to Canada’s sordid white colonialist oppressors.
Haven’t listened to Ceeb radio for at least 20 years.

Mustard Clementine
Mustard Clementine
1 year ago
Reply to  Walter Lantz

There was the sense that trust is not something earned but rather something the CBC was entitled to and that was unfairly being taken away.

It is the same attitude that explains our (Canadian) government’s strange handling of leaks regarding Chinese interference in our elections.
Perhaps they haven’t even done anything particularly wrong, per se, but are simply so stuck in their “how dare you question me” attitude, that it makes them seem sketchy.

Ray Andrews
Ray Andrews
1 year ago
Reply to  Walter Lantz

Remember Ideas with Lister? Remember when, no matter how bad your day may have been, at 9:00, for an hour, you could forget about everything? Now we have a sort of woke-jihadi in his place, and episodes such as the black lesiban-feminist take on the worldwide sand shortage, or a squaw with a quota PhD telling us that the Indians ‘come from here’ — they can’t have come from Asia because 15,000 years ago, Asia wasn’t called Asia. QED.

Mustard Clementine
Mustard Clementine
1 year ago
Reply to  Walter Lantz

There was the sense that trust is not something earned but rather something the CBC was entitled to and that was unfairly being taken away.

It is the same attitude that explains our (Canadian) government’s strange handling of leaks regarding Chinese interference in our elections.
Perhaps they haven’t even done anything particularly wrong, per se, but are simply so stuck in their “how dare you question me” attitude, that it makes them seem sketchy.

Walter Lantz
Walter Lantz
1 year ago

We don’t see much of the Beeb on this side of the pond but its colonial cousin the CBC works very much the same way as do other legacy media outlets. They have devolved into state media outlets.
Naturally the trust levels and viewership have plummeted as it turns out most people are quite capable of realizing actual disinformation and the incessant gas-lighting that goes along with it.
Recently the CBC set up a friendly interview with the current president Catherine Tait to address lack of trust in the MSM. Apparently it all started with Trump and his battle against MSM. Then the interview just settled into a series of gentle serves lobbed Tait’s way so she could smash the returns back. The CBC is actually a victim of misinformation. Unnamed dark alt- Right forces are deluding the gullible proles was the general theme of the interview.
The core point that resonated with me was the apparent ignorance or deliberate misrepresentation of “Trust”. There was the sense that trust is not something earned but rather something the CBC was entitled to and that was unfairly being taken away. Not trusting the CBC is a failure on the viewer’s part – not the network. “It’s not me, it’s you”.

Dermot O'Sullivan
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago

We are subject to manipulation and the so called elites or vested interests know this. What is unsaid, or how something is presented, is also a factor here. For example, if I go into Twitter I will see many articles in recent weeks about the Twitter Files, supposed proof that the company was leant on by the authorities to restrict and/or block information and individuals, and if I look at the MSM (Guardian, Irish Times, BBC) I get very little if anything on this story. Why? Anytime I see an article on Trump, or Musk, I know it’s going to be negative. There are a host of otther examples, many of which I may not even notice.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

I really don’t need anyone to tell me whether Trump, Musk or Putin are right or wrong I can figure it out for myself.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

I really don’t need anyone to tell me whether Trump, Musk or Putin are right or wrong I can figure it out for myself.

Dermot O'Sullivan
Dermot O'Sullivan
1 year ago

We are subject to manipulation and the so called elites or vested interests know this. What is unsaid, or how something is presented, is also a factor here. For example, if I go into Twitter I will see many articles in recent weeks about the Twitter Files, supposed proof that the company was leant on by the authorities to restrict and/or block information and individuals, and if I look at the MSM (Guardian, Irish Times, BBC) I get very little if anything on this story. Why? Anytime I see an article on Trump, or Musk, I know it’s going to be negative. There are a host of otther examples, many of which I may not even notice.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago

It appears that the ‘Regulators’ are currently ascendant. The people who wish to regulate others’ behaviour to prevent climate change. The people who wish to regulate others’ behaviour to prevent economic ‘unfairness’. The people who wish to regulate others’ behaviour to prevent being unkind to a whole range of people.
The ‘Regulators’ aspire to Utopia (under their benevolent guidance) and everyone else must be made to fit. And jobs like the BBC’s Disinformation and Social Media Correspondent are merely handmaidens (handpersons?) in this glorious endeavour. Well, glorious to those who gain and defend their social status.

AC Harper
AC Harper
1 year ago

It appears that the ‘Regulators’ are currently ascendant. The people who wish to regulate others’ behaviour to prevent climate change. The people who wish to regulate others’ behaviour to prevent economic ‘unfairness’. The people who wish to regulate others’ behaviour to prevent being unkind to a whole range of people.
The ‘Regulators’ aspire to Utopia (under their benevolent guidance) and everyone else must be made to fit. And jobs like the BBC’s Disinformation and Social Media Correspondent are merely handmaidens (handpersons?) in this glorious endeavour. Well, glorious to those who gain and defend their social status.

Jim Stanton
Jim Stanton
1 year ago

Love how so many of the leftist persuasion loved Elon Musk, until he bought Twitter and restored free speech. Now he’s just this side of Donald Trump on the hate meter.
Freedom of speech isn’t to protect popular speech. It never has been. It’s to protect unpopular speech and prevent majorities, usually governments, from trampling the speech of the minority. Like when people tried to question lockdowns, mask wearing and vaccines. All of which have proven to be more harm than good. This was suppressed and people were cancelled even though they were right all along.
Apologies for any of these minority people who spoke out and have been silenced or cancelled?

Jim Stanton
Jim Stanton
1 year ago

Love how so many of the leftist persuasion loved Elon Musk, until he bought Twitter and restored free speech. Now he’s just this side of Donald Trump on the hate meter.
Freedom of speech isn’t to protect popular speech. It never has been. It’s to protect unpopular speech and prevent majorities, usually governments, from trampling the speech of the minority. Like when people tried to question lockdowns, mask wearing and vaccines. All of which have proven to be more harm than good. This was suppressed and people were cancelled even though they were right all along.
Apologies for any of these minority people who spoke out and have been silenced or cancelled?

Coralie Palmer
Coralie Palmer
1 year ago

I have great admiration for Kathleen Stock, so I’m puzzled by her willing adoption of an unnecessary neologism ‘disinformation’, which she defines as: ‘the knowing introduction of false statements with the explicit intention to deceive people’. Otherwise known as lying.

Richard Powell
Richard Powell
1 year ago
Reply to  Coralie Palmer

‘Disinformation’ is not a neologism. The oldest of the eleven citations in the OED dates to 1955. The OED definition is “The dissemination of deliberately false information, esp. when supplied by a government or its agent to a foreign power or to the media, with the intention of influencing the policies or opinions of those who receive it; false information so supplied.” This is rather more elaborate than the everyday activity known as “lying”. A quick search of the Times website reveals that the word has appeared there 1,636 times in recent years. So it is a word in frequent current use and its existence meets a need.

Christian Moon
Christian Moon
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Powell

That definition also implies some directing of the disinformation, or as we might call it ‘conspiracy’. Which is ironic given the parallel anathematisation of ‘conspiracy-thinking’ by the disinformation hunters..

Christian Moon
Christian Moon
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard Powell

That definition also implies some directing of the disinformation, or as we might call it ‘conspiracy’. Which is ironic given the parallel anathematisation of ‘conspiracy-thinking’ by the disinformation hunters..

Richard Powell
Richard Powell
1 year ago
Reply to  Coralie Palmer

‘Disinformation’ is not a neologism. The oldest of the eleven citations in the OED dates to 1955. The OED definition is “The dissemination of deliberately false information, esp. when supplied by a government or its agent to a foreign power or to the media, with the intention of influencing the policies or opinions of those who receive it; false information so supplied.” This is rather more elaborate than the everyday activity known as “lying”. A quick search of the Times website reveals that the word has appeared there 1,636 times in recent years. So it is a word in frequent current use and its existence meets a need.

Coralie Palmer
Coralie Palmer
1 year ago

I have great admiration for Kathleen Stock, so I’m puzzled by her willing adoption of an unnecessary neologism ‘disinformation’, which she defines as: ‘the knowing introduction of false statements with the explicit intention to deceive people’. Otherwise known as lying.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago

This essay addresses all the concerns that I have had for some time about fact-checking and disinformation “journalists”. My biggest concern was what “disinformation” is investigated; it always seems so one-sided, and, whilst I would love it if all the output from my “side” were right, I do recognise that even those that I generally support could be wrong, and yet they are rarely (if ever) challenged. It would be great if there were someone out there who could disinterestedly investigate all the mis- and dis-information put out from all quarters, and unfailingly recognise it as such, and ensure that we all know about it – but it ain’t gonna happen.

Dr. Stock also points out the lack of true investigative reporters as opposed to journo-activists whose purpose is not to uncover the truth but to drive their own political agendas. This type of journalism is cheap in both money and morals; less cheap for people like me as I end up buying both The Spectator and the New Statesman in a hope of finding some balance.

Last edited 1 year ago by Linda Hutchinson
ben arnulfssen
ben arnulfssen
1 year ago

You buy the Speccie and the New Statesman to find balance?

Really?

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  ben arnulfssen

Yes.

Rob N
Rob N
1 year ago
Reply to  ben arnulfssen

I get Guardian Weekly and Speccie. GW is more proper reporting than G’s blatant propaganda but still with clear bias.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Rob N

I used to read the Guardian, but am no longer able to do so because of my blood pressure.

Richard Craven
Richard Craven
1 year ago
Reply to  Rob N

I used to read the Guardian, but am no longer able to do so because of my blood pressure.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago
Reply to  ben arnulfssen

Yes.

Rob N
Rob N
1 year ago
Reply to  ben arnulfssen

I get Guardian Weekly and Speccie. GW is more proper reporting than G’s blatant propaganda but still with clear bias.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

That’s the way to do it – your own search for truth.

ben arnulfssen
ben arnulfssen
1 year ago

You buy the Speccie and the New Statesman to find balance?

Really?

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago

That’s the way to do it – your own search for truth.

Linda Hutchinson
Linda Hutchinson
1 year ago

This essay addresses all the concerns that I have had for some time about fact-checking and disinformation “journalists”. My biggest concern was what “disinformation” is investigated; it always seems so one-sided, and, whilst I would love it if all the output from my “side” were right, I do recognise that even those that I generally support could be wrong, and yet they are rarely (if ever) challenged. It would be great if there were someone out there who could disinterestedly investigate all the mis- and dis-information put out from all quarters, and unfailingly recognise it as such, and ensure that we all know about it – but it ain’t gonna happen.

Dr. Stock also points out the lack of true investigative reporters as opposed to journo-activists whose purpose is not to uncover the truth but to drive their own political agendas. This type of journalism is cheap in both money and morals; less cheap for people like me as I end up buying both The Spectator and the New Statesman in a hope of finding some balance.

Last edited 1 year ago by Linda Hutchinson
Gerard A
Gerard A
1 year ago

I saw an article from Spring on the BBC website discussing Covid conspiracy theories. The was immediately below an article on the latest Covid stats which contained at least eight misleading, out of context or otherwise inaccurate claims.

Self awareness is definitely not a BBC strength

Gerard A
Gerard A
1 year ago

I saw an article from Spring on the BBC website discussing Covid conspiracy theories. The was immediately below an article on the latest Covid stats which contained at least eight misleading, out of context or otherwise inaccurate claims.

Self awareness is definitely not a BBC strength

Paul T
Paul T
1 year ago

Their motto is “It’s okay when we do it”.

Paul T
Paul T
1 year ago

Their motto is “It’s okay when we do it”.

Caroline Ayers
Caroline Ayers
1 year ago

I’m surprised Kathleen Stock did not point out the fact that Elon Musk uncovered a massive censorship system at Twitter (under its former management) of TRUTHS about Covid which the Democrats wanted censored (like the Great Barrington Declaration and even actual CDC stats which rather inconveniently did not support the government narrative on the effectiveness of the vaccine). Presumably the Panorama documentary, along with the mainstream media failed to cover Elon Musk’s contribution to the defence of free speech because people like Spring seem to only believe in free speech for the half of the population that share their views. Its so frustrating.

Caroline Ayers
Caroline Ayers
1 year ago

I’m surprised Kathleen Stock did not point out the fact that Elon Musk uncovered a massive censorship system at Twitter (under its former management) of TRUTHS about Covid which the Democrats wanted censored (like the Great Barrington Declaration and even actual CDC stats which rather inconveniently did not support the government narrative on the effectiveness of the vaccine). Presumably the Panorama documentary, along with the mainstream media failed to cover Elon Musk’s contribution to the defence of free speech because people like Spring seem to only believe in free speech for the half of the population that share their views. Its so frustrating.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago

“BBC’s Disinformation and Social Media Correspondent”
I think they have more than enough of these already. The BBC themselves are prime exponents of “instant media” in which they rush out ill thought out and innaccurate views. That and filtering and hand-crafting “news” to fit their pre-defined agendas.
I just low pass filter the stuff (very occasionally sample the output). It’s the only way to avoid all the high frequency noise you get from social media.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago

“BBC’s Disinformation and Social Media Correspondent”
I think they have more than enough of these already. The BBC themselves are prime exponents of “instant media” in which they rush out ill thought out and innaccurate views. That and filtering and hand-crafting “news” to fit their pre-defined agendas.
I just low pass filter the stuff (very occasionally sample the output). It’s the only way to avoid all the high frequency noise you get from social media.

Paul K
Paul K
1 year ago

Please stop using the phrase ‘anti-vaxxer.’ It’s a perjorative designed to dismiss many real and genuine concerns. Ironically, it’s part of the ‘disinformation’ that the author is lamenting.

Paul K
Paul K
1 year ago

Please stop using the phrase ‘anti-vaxxer.’ It’s a perjorative designed to dismiss many real and genuine concerns. Ironically, it’s part of the ‘disinformation’ that the author is lamenting.

Dominic English
Dominic English
1 year ago

The most egregious example of this policing of our speech is the Online Safety Bill. Which treats regular people as empty vessels, essentially little more than dumb animals, easily contaminated by ‘bad’ ideas. https://open.substack.com/pub/lowstatus/p/the-online-safety-bill-is-a-cannibal?utm_source=direct&r=evzeq&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
1 year ago

Thanks for the link, I loved it, amusing yet sadly accurate…

Carl Valentine
Carl Valentine
1 year ago

Thanks for the link, I loved it, amusing yet sadly accurate…

Dominic English
Dominic English
1 year ago

The most egregious example of this policing of our speech is the Online Safety Bill. Which treats regular people as empty vessels, essentially little more than dumb animals, easily contaminated by ‘bad’ ideas. https://open.substack.com/pub/lowstatus/p/the-online-safety-bill-is-a-cannibal?utm_source=direct&r=evzeq&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago

I take the view that these social media “platforms” are in fact publishers. And on that basis their content should be subject to the same rules that govern other forms of mass media. The fact that they’ve devised a clever way of getting their content donated free of charge by users, doesn’t change anything. I’m not arguing for opinions I don’t agree with to be banned but the heat needs to be taken out of a lot of exchanges on social media. It’s possible to hold an opinion and NOT deliver it as “hate speech”. Before I binned Twitter I made plenty of comments that I’m not proud of, simply because I could.

jim peden
jim peden
1 year ago

I’m glad to see you’re using your real name in your excellent comment! I don’t have a Twitter account (I do use substack) but I feel that using one’s real name as opposed to some snappy ‘handle’ is a way to reduce some of the heat’ one might feel.
I don’t really understand how we got saddled with accepting anonymity.

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago
Reply to  jim peden

Thanks. I use my real name here for precisely that reason. It imposes some discipline on me. Although I admit I’ve written and then deleted comments before hitting post.

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago
Reply to  jim peden

Thanks. I use my real name here for precisely that reason. It imposes some discipline on me. Although I admit I’ve written and then deleted comments before hitting post.

jim peden
jim peden
1 year ago

I’m glad to see you’re using your real name in your excellent comment! I don’t have a Twitter account (I do use substack) but I feel that using one’s real name as opposed to some snappy ‘handle’ is a way to reduce some of the heat’ one might feel.
I don’t really understand how we got saddled with accepting anonymity.

Simon Blanchard
Simon Blanchard
1 year ago

I take the view that these social media “platforms” are in fact publishers. And on that basis their content should be subject to the same rules that govern other forms of mass media. The fact that they’ve devised a clever way of getting their content donated free of charge by users, doesn’t change anything. I’m not arguing for opinions I don’t agree with to be banned but the heat needs to be taken out of a lot of exchanges on social media. It’s possible to hold an opinion and NOT deliver it as “hate speech”. Before I binned Twitter I made plenty of comments that I’m not proud of, simply because I could.

Jason Smith
Jason Smith
1 year ago

This is, as usual, very good. But I think the idea that investigative journalism doesn’t exist anymore is false. There are plenty of excellent investigative articles in all kinds of different newspapers including, dare I say it, The Guardian – The Panama Papers, Grenfell, Covid origins etc. But real investigative journalists cannot be bothered with this sort of peripheral, ephemeral nonsense. The worry, as you identify, is that junior people like Marianna Spring end up with significant influence and ultimately are put in charge of news organisations

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Jason Smith

There’s quite a lot of good investigative journalism on YouTube. I find the reporting on financial stuff much better than TV or radio once you’ve found the best channels.
The interesting thing is that the people doing the work now are not degree trained “professional journalists”. Yet they do a far better job.
It is almost as if modern specialised degrees in media and politics actually narrow people’s outlook on life and ability to fully explore and investigate things. I think that’s a major reason why TV, radio and news journalism is so dull and predictable these days.
And this narrowness of outlook seems to bring with it this whole – in my view utterly bogus – agenda of “fact checking” and “busting disinformation”.
What’s wrong with letting intelligent viewers, listeners and readers pass their own judgement ? Judgement on both the media output and the journalists producing it.

Peter B
Peter B
1 year ago
Reply to  Jason Smith

There’s quite a lot of good investigative journalism on YouTube. I find the reporting on financial stuff much better than TV or radio once you’ve found the best channels.
The interesting thing is that the people doing the work now are not degree trained “professional journalists”. Yet they do a far better job.
It is almost as if modern specialised degrees in media and politics actually narrow people’s outlook on life and ability to fully explore and investigate things. I think that’s a major reason why TV, radio and news journalism is so dull and predictable these days.
And this narrowness of outlook seems to bring with it this whole – in my view utterly bogus – agenda of “fact checking” and “busting disinformation”.
What’s wrong with letting intelligent viewers, listeners and readers pass their own judgement ? Judgement on both the media output and the journalists producing it.

Jason Smith
Jason Smith
1 year ago

This is, as usual, very good. But I think the idea that investigative journalism doesn’t exist anymore is false. There are plenty of excellent investigative articles in all kinds of different newspapers including, dare I say it, The Guardian – The Panama Papers, Grenfell, Covid origins etc. But real investigative journalists cannot be bothered with this sort of peripheral, ephemeral nonsense. The worry, as you identify, is that junior people like Marianna Spring end up with significant influence and ultimately are put in charge of news organisations

Suzanne C.
Suzanne C.
1 year ago

Very nice piece. Not sure why your final point isn’t being made over and over again as it cuts to the heart of the problem. Investigative journalism has been conspicuously absent for a long time and we are all suffering, left to make what we can of the puzzle pieces that fall in our lap. Every attempt to make sense of the insanity around us isn’t a conspiracy theory, but we are all being gaslit to think greed and raw ambition can’t possibly be the culprit.
investigative journalism used to help keep politicians on either side of the aisle in order, exposing their more egregious sins. It would serve the same purpose for keeping multinationals from grossly exploitative marketing, like the baby formula in Africa scandal. Maybe someone could investigate whether there is an actual money trail that picked up heft during Covid. Something as simple as a feature showing the price of a standard grocery cart full of food and how much the prices rise each week would be considered partisan today, plus maybe the food selection would privilege a specific ethnicity.
This woman’s job sounds more like it is intended to throttle and control the narrative rather than look for truth, which might be inconveniently closer to the conspiracy theorists than anyone will admit.
the question isn’t whether there is disinformation, the question is whether there is any other kind.

Suzanne C.
Suzanne C.
1 year ago

Very nice piece. Not sure why your final point isn’t being made over and over again as it cuts to the heart of the problem. Investigative journalism has been conspicuously absent for a long time and we are all suffering, left to make what we can of the puzzle pieces that fall in our lap. Every attempt to make sense of the insanity around us isn’t a conspiracy theory, but we are all being gaslit to think greed and raw ambition can’t possibly be the culprit.
investigative journalism used to help keep politicians on either side of the aisle in order, exposing their more egregious sins. It would serve the same purpose for keeping multinationals from grossly exploitative marketing, like the baby formula in Africa scandal. Maybe someone could investigate whether there is an actual money trail that picked up heft during Covid. Something as simple as a feature showing the price of a standard grocery cart full of food and how much the prices rise each week would be considered partisan today, plus maybe the food selection would privilege a specific ethnicity.
This woman’s job sounds more like it is intended to throttle and control the narrative rather than look for truth, which might be inconveniently closer to the conspiracy theorists than anyone will admit.
the question isn’t whether there is disinformation, the question is whether there is any other kind.

Martin Johnson
Martin Johnson
1 year ago

I am in America so do not see/hear BBC in my normal day. But I doubt it is much different than what we experience here.
I think this article is much too kind to the censors… sorry, disinformation specialists.
They are wannabe Josef Goebbels’. He thought he was doing the right thing and advancing a higher good by serving his master, just as they do, and I see no evidence that any of them desire less power than he had.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Johnson

CNN is my go to in the US, but I also read many other things.I grew up with the BBC but that was a long time ago so I’m out of touch with current problems. I loved everything on the radio – Brit comedy is the absolute best, I miss that natural, intelligent wit.

Clare Knight
Clare Knight
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin Johnson

CNN is my go to in the US, but I also read many other things.I grew up with the BBC but that was a long time ago so I’m out of touch with current problems. I loved everything on the radio – Brit comedy is the absolute best, I miss that natural, intelligent wit.

Martin Johnson
Martin Johnson
1 year ago

I am in America so do not see/hear BBC in my normal day. But I doubt it is much different than what we experience here.
I think this article is much too kind to the censors… sorry, disinformation specialists.
They are wannabe Josef Goebbels’. He thought he was doing the right thing and advancing a higher good by serving his master, just as they do, and I see no evidence that any of them desire less power than he had.

Andrew Raiment
Andrew Raiment
1 year ago

There appears to be a number of broadcaster/journalists who have studied philosophy at university who can’t even recognise a fallacy in their own argument. Perhaps a factor being the prevalence of digital/social media and reliance of Op-Eds in the place of essays.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Raiment
Andrew Raiment
Andrew Raiment
1 year ago

There appears to be a number of broadcaster/journalists who have studied philosophy at university who can’t even recognise a fallacy in their own argument. Perhaps a factor being the prevalence of digital/social media and reliance of Op-Eds in the place of essays.

Last edited 1 year ago by Andrew Raiment
Adrian Smith
Adrian Smith
1 year ago

So the BBC is setting itself up as the Ministry of Truth. What a great way to initiate the Orwellian nightmare.
Freedom of speech is our most precious right. When it dies it is followed shortly by people who those in power find disagreeable.